Posted on 03/30/2023 6:18:29 PM PDT by Roman_War_Criminal
A reader reminded me of an article I had written back in 2019. For whatever reason, it did not make the transition from my old website to this one. Here it is.
As the old saying goes, the eyes are of no use if the mind is blind.
So it is come to this then, that we who live in the most transformative, prophetically active time since the days of Christ, see so little interest in what the Bible has to say about what will come to pass in these last days. Tragically, this disinterest comes as equally from those who profess Christ, as from those who don’t. The study today is over why this is.
“However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.” – 1 Corinthians 2:6-9
The section of Bible prophecy which speaks to the events of the last days, Eschatology, is not some fringe hobby that people dabble in with the same seriousness as those who follow UFOs or Big Foot. Eschatology is a major doctrinal study that consumes around 30% of your Bible. John F. Walvoord, the late President of the Dallas Theological Seminary, dubbed it the ‘capstone of Christian doctrine’, because your eschatological view determines how you hold to every other major doctrine…such as Soteriology, Ecclesiology, etc.) If you think about it for a second, your entire Bible, either center around Christ’s first coming, or His second. It only makes sense that a book in which God is revealing Himself to mankind progressively, (i.e….not all at once), is a book that hinges around His own Incarnation and His return for His people.
Yet today more than ever, so-called Evangelicals are increasingly becoming dismissive of Bible prophecy because they believe it is a fool’s errand, that Christ may never return, or that it impedes their ability to enact cultural change through the social gospel. This is promulgated in the Reformed Theology groups as well as thru the Prosperity Gospel and Emergent Church movements. It’s like it has become popular again in Christendom, to no longer care if or when Christ will return as if it is some distraction we needn’t concern ourselves with.
“We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.” – 1 John 5:19
As Christians, we must understand that Satan really exists, and he is a real enemy of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and the nation of Israel. He’s an enemy of the Gospel because it represents his ultimate defeat and demise at the Cross of Calvary, and whatever schemes and plans he had prior to the Cross, became null and void when God provided a foolproof way to redeem fallen man through the shed blood of Jesus Christ. He’s an enemy of Israel because she represents the Apple of God’s Eye, (Zech. 2:8) and because of the promises and covenants God made with her. (Romans 11:25-29) If a “Christian” refuses to believe that Satan really exists, then they are in a sense, calling into question, Jesus’s sanity…for whom else did Jesus speak to in the desert when undergoing His forty days of temptation were it not who Scripture says it was? (Luke 4:1-13)
Satan and all of his demonic hosts then, HATE Bible prophecy, because it foretells their sure doom. We know the things Satan hates most because these are the things he has spent most of his time and energy, trying to destroy. Likewise, if the world is under the temporary control of Satan, it makes sense then that these are the same things the world hates. Satan has invested millennia in distorting, perverting, discrediting, dismissing, and silencing true, orthodox, and Scriptural Bible prophecy.
Think about it this way; the world and its way of thinking, tolerate pretty much everything to one degree or another…except Biblical Christianity and Israel’s existence. Child marriages, abortion, Islam, Buddhism, paganism, Satanism, murder, theft, corruption, etc., etc….the world tolerates and forgives. But if you say that Jesus is the only way to salvation, the world will destroy you, or die trying. In regards to Bible prophecy then, ask yourself;
1. Which does the world hate more, Pre-Millennialism or Amillennialism?
2. Which does the world hate more, a Pre-Tribulation Rapture, or no Rapture at all?
3. Why are there so many different views on when the Rapture takes place?
Can we not see the satanic attempts to distort and pervert our understanding of the “Blessed Hope”? And be certain, it can only be a “Blessed Hope”, if we are removed before the world enters into the 70th Week of Daniel (Daniel 9:24-27). Going in, halfway, or all the way removes any sense of ‘hope’ if we are to be subjected to the horror Christ Himself said would not only be present but be unparalleled in all of history (Matt. 24:21-22).
What I find interesting, is that those Christian “scholars” and denominations who dismiss Bible prophecy as either unimportant or irrelevant, seemingly do so because it interferes or distracts people away from their earthly agendas. Whether those agendas are soaked in social justice, the environment, or perhaps trying to make themselves culturally relevant, Bible prophecy definitively takes people's gaze from looking down to looking up. What I also find interesting, is that even our enemies, those spiritual forces who are opposed to God, believe and understand Bible prophecy.
“When He had come to the other side, to the country of the Gergesenes, there met Him two demon-possessed men, coming out of the tombs, exceedingly fierce, so that no one could pass that way. And suddenly they cried out, saying, “What have we to do with You, Jesus, You Son of God? Have you come here to torment us before the time?” Matthew 8:28-29
The demonic hosts, tremble at the thought of God (James 2:19). They tremble at the name of Jesus Christ. Not only do they know He (Christ) exists, but they also know that there is coming a day of reckoning when they will be judged and cast into eternal punishment. They know the seriousness of this coming judgment, as some of their demonic ‘brethren’ were already cast into the Abyss, under chains of darkness, until that Day of Judgment when they are to be cast into the Lake of Fire forever. They will suffer this for their sins of mixing sexually with humans in an attempt to corrupt the genetic gene pool prior to the Noahic Flood (See Gen. 6:1-4, 2 Peter 2:4, Jude 1:6-7). Yet, as wicked and depraved as these fallen angels are, they at least, have the common sense to fear and tremble at the very mention of God…whereas defiant and rebellious man does not.
“…and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries, whereas angels, who are greater in power and might, do not bring a reviling accusation against them before the Lord.” – 2 Peter 2:10-11
Assessment
Perhaps this increased skepticism about Christ and His return ties back into the whole normalcy bias that our world has succumbed to. People do not understand the supernatural realm and are rarely exposed to it, therefore, they dismiss it, because they can’t physically put their hands on it or see it with their eyes. This idea that the supernatural either doesn’t exist or is so ethereal that it’s irrelevant, has become the dominant view in academia and government and is very pagan in origin. Naturalism, secular humanism, realism, and materialism have become the only acceptable platforms in the ‘public arena of ideas for the last half of the 20th century and have had devastating results in our education system, culture, and the Judeo-Christian way of life. Not only are these views the mainstay in our secular culture, but has effectively infiltrated and infected our theological institutions as well.
In fact, the overwhelming number of seminaries today, are largely liberal. Yet, what’s frustrating is that we have lived through arguably the most transformative, dynamic, technologically advanced, and blood-stained century the world has EVER seen…yet, we act as if things have always been this way. Just think about the major events which have radically changed the world in just the last 100 years or so;
1. World War 1 (1914-1918) reshaped and redrew the boundaries of much of Europe and the Middle East.
2. Bolshevik Revolution (1917-1922) created a communist superpower through the formation of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR), which would enable the Cold War to be waged for almost 50 years.
3. World War II (1939-1945) again drew the whole world into conflict. Out of its ashes, gave reason for the world to create a global governing body (United Nations), and Europe's cause to come together economically (European Coal and Steel Community) and militarily (NATO).
4. The rebirth of the nation of Israel in 1948, after almost two millennia of diaspora, would become the very catalyst that would awaken the sleeping giant of orthodox (i.e….radical) Islam. Both Sunni and Shia sects then became bent on destroying Israel. Israel’s rebirth into the table of nations galvanized Islam into a regional nightmare bent on wiping Israel (and all those who support her) off the map.
5. Bretton Woods Agreement (1945) effectively put the world under a single, global, reserve currency…the U.S. Dollar, and linked it to the Gold Standard at $35 an ounce.
6. OPEC (1960) stands for the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, which has come to dominate the petroleum-based energy needs for the last half of the 20th century. The United States worked a deal with OPEC nations from 1973 to 1975 to create what would come to be known as the fiat “Petrol Dollar”, which meant that the US would militarily and economically remain faithful, so long as all oil transactions were made in US Currency.
7. The creation of the Internet (the 1980s) is a system of systems, which links electronic devices together via the World Wide Web (www). It’s hard to imagine life before the Internet, because it has really been the biggest revolutionary change to communication, ever. It has rapidly increased information availability, communications, and technological advancements in every sector, and has become instrumental in media, government, and the military.
I wish people could step back to see the big picture, and then ask themselves one fundamental question; “Is the world growing towards, or further away from, global government?”
We know that according to Scripture, the world will eventually come under the control of ten regional rulers. (Daniel 7:23-25; 8:23-25, Rev. 13:1-4; 17:9-14) From this regional consortium, will arise one man who is given power by three of these regions/kingdoms. From here, the man (who we believe to be the antichrist/rider on the white horse) will come to singularly and authoritatively rule the entire world.
But changing from the world as it is today, to what the world will look like then, will not happen overnight. Infrastructure and legislation have to be put in place, technology has to be developed which would allow for the implementation of global control mechanisms, which would mean that the conditions are such that independent countries would willingly set aside their national borders and sovereignty, in order to come together for the common good. Change like that only happens in the face of a massive, global, crisis.
Now, we’ve all been witness to the current, unsuccessful attempts by globalists today to try and generate panic on a worldwide scale, through the false alarms of “Global Cooling”. When that didn’t pan out, they called it “Global Warming”. When the scientific data didn’t support the AlGorian hyperbolic warnings of impending destruction, the crisis HAD to be rebranded again, to “Climate Change”. So why the hard push for something that clearly at the present, isn’t a crisis?
Since the world already has a global government called the United Nations, it has the mechanism, but not the authority to pull all the nations together under its protective umbrella. In fact, the UN is quite impotent in its ability to do much of anything. What it lacks though, is a means to fund its initiatives through global taxation. It needs a crisis and this crisis would potentially be used to create a standing army/navy/air force to enforce peace, and security, and serve as a way to enforce taxation compliance.
Currently, the United Nations currently receives the bulk of its funding through the United States, where it is also headquartered. The “Climate Change” crisis was absolutely necessary in order to drum up funding for enhanced global governance through “carbon taxes”, which would then achieve two goals; punish the rich, western nations through heavy taxes for benefitting from industrialization (wealth redistribution), and create bureaucratic overreach which is necessary to implement Agenda 21 and 2030 programs which remove sovereignty nations have over their own territories. Imagine the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) on a global scale.
Conclusion
So let’s be clear on this then, that Satan’s schemes and maneuverings in these regards are neither random nor arbitrary. He is in the process of putting his affairs in order, in short order…because he knows he has but a little time left before all this comes apart at the seams. He knows the Bible and knows what God told Noah after the Flood (Genesis 8:20-22), that He will keep the seasons and natural order going until He deems fit, so all this talk of global cooling, warming, and climate change crisis, is simply machinations of something more sinister he has in store…which is, to bring the world together under one man, antichrist, who will then take that last stand against Christ at His Second Coming.
Satan knows perfectly well, that Christ will return for His bride, the Church before all this goes down…which is why he has invested so much time and energy in confusing the churches about the subject. He knows that this is THE crisis he will use to bring all the governments of the world together into his already well-laid plans. He just doesn’t know when this will all go down. So the overwhelming lack of interest, the skepticism, and outright scoffing of the Bible, and Bible prophecy that we see today, is in keeping with the two thousand-plus years’ worth of deception and corruption that Satan has invested in keeping people in the dark.
“And shall God not avenge His own elect who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them? I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?” Luke 17:7-8
We need only look back at Christ’s first coming, and the scarce knowledge and awareness of the people then knew that their Messiah had come, to see how Satan works in keeping the world blinded to God’s future prophetic timeline. As we near His Second Coming, do we not see the exact same thing taking place, even in the churches? On one hand, the Church has come under intense persecution throughout much of the world. On the other, the churches have largely fallen asleep and no longer know where we are on God’s divine timeline, nor do they know where they are going. Believers are starting to give up on God’s promise of returning for His own.
Rest assured… He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming quickly.”
Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus!
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. Rev. 22:20-21
End Times Ping
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He will Return indeed!
Maranatha!
Bookmark
Amen 🙏🏻!!!! Hasten your return, Lord Jesus!
Bkmk
The devil is not stupid, and dresses his hatred of all things Godly in a way that appears good on the surface to us flawed humans. The fraudulent moral values of the present world focus on selfishness instead of acknowledgement of a higher power, and accepting our sinful nature instead of rising above it. Humanism and other atheistic beliefs deny the spiritual side of ourselves and assume that we are nothing more than animals, living by bread alone. And this leads to further destructive behavior that we see in the world today.
My Hope and my Salvation
“Can we not see the satanic attempts to distort and pervert our understanding of the ‘Blessed Hope’? And be certain, it can only be a ‘Blessed Hope’, if we are removed before the world enters into the 70th Week of Daniel (Daniel 9:24-27). Going in, halfway, or all the way removes any sense of ‘hope’ if we are to be subjected to the horror Christ Himself said would not only be present but be unparalleled in all of history (Matt. 24:21-22).”
“Hope” is a word that, in English, conveys a sense of doubtfulness. But the hope of the Bible is assurance and confidence in the face of uncertainty.
It is a horrific lie for anyone (and this is not an accusation directed at you or anyone on this forum, but merely a general statement) to mix with the Gospel a promise of a life of ease, comfort, prosperity, riches, or God otherwise capitulating to all of our foolish desires.
Christ very expressly and emphatically PROMISES those who follow Him will, in a similar way, suffer as He did. God does NOT promise the believer a life free from tribulation, persecution, or affliction. Indeed all of these things MUST happen, according to the scripture.
John 16:33 NKJV
These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.
Romans 8:35 NKJV
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
2 Timothy 3:12 NKJV
Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.
The blessed hope is the escape from God’s wrath:
1 Thessalonians 5:8-10 NKJV
But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.
There is a clear distinction in scripture between Daniel’s 70th week and the Day of the Lord. Further, the Day of the Lord is the second coming. This time period begins with the rapture and ends with Christ’s subsequent return to the earth. That “Day” is the time when God’s fiery wrath and indignation are poured out on the earth.
Deception, war, famine, disease, and persecution are signs that precede Christ’s second coming. See Matthew 24 and Revelation 5.
What things must come BEFORE the Day of the Lord?
First, the Holy Spirit (which was already fulfilled at Pentecost). See Acts 2.
Second, Elijah.:
Malachi 4:5 NKJV
Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet
Before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.
Third, specific signs in the heavens:
Joel 2:31 NKJV
The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD.
But Elijah comes during Daniel’s 70th week, not before it. And the signs in the heavens come AFTER the Great Tribulation according to Matthew 24 and other passages.
Fourth, the Apostasy, and fifth, the revelation of the Antichrist:
2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 NKJV
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
The idea of a pre-tribulation rapture is rooted in a misunderstanding of the Day of the Lord and its distinction from the Great Tribulation, which comes first and contains the signs of the second coming. Christ will appear in great power and glory, and gather His elect, immediately AFTER the Great Tribulation, and immediately BEFORE the Day of the Lord (or as this time period’s initial event).
But a pre-tribulation rapture in no way changes any of that.
Christ will still have Tribulation believers who come to Him during that tribulation and somehow survive, and for Him to gather to Himself and fulfill that prophecy, even if the church is removed before the Tribulation begins.
Scripture records that MANY will refuse to submit to the antichrist and pay the ultimate price for it so it doesn’t need to be the church age believers who are the ones who go through the Tribulation for Jesus to gather to Himself.
The rapture can still happen, and many people will still come to Christ, and some will somehow survive to be the gathered together ones.
Also, during the Tribulation, the wedding feast of the Lamb is occurring in heaven. Since the church is the body of Christ, she is the Bride, the one whom Christ is marrying. She needs to be there for her own wedding.
Nor are Christians destined for judgment. Christ mentions that several times in the gospels as well.
Also, the Tribulation is about God fulfilling His promises to Israel and bring her to the place of accepting Christ as her Messiah, and passing judgment on an unbelieving world for its sin and rejection of Christ, neither of which apply to the church. Our sin has already been judged and that because we have NOT rejected Christ.
God delivers the righteous from judgment, just like Noah from the Flood, Lot from the destruction of the cities of the plain, and Rahab from Jericho.
Very well said. Thank you for sharing it.
🙏🙏🙏
Some of us believe and know that a PreTribulation Rapture will happen.
Others doubt, dismiss, or scoff.
I’ve been living over 30 years for Christ with many Tribulations, suffering, persecutions, and afflictions. It’s the walk we choose to take when we follow Him.
So I’m scratching my head at why you think it’s a ‘horrific lie’ that you are projecting on those who believe in His Words about His Return? (John 14:3)
Guess we’ll continue to lock horns on the issue.
I’m stubborn that way and so are you.
Pete Garcia nails these scoffers in this write up for what they believe - mixing scripture with distortions blended in by the enemy. That’s why it’s so important to stick to The Word.
No amount of reasoning can ever change their mind.
No amount of examples from Scripture, or from Jesus’s own Words on the subject will make them move from their box.
One common trait the Rapture scoffers have with legalists is that they all tie in their Salvation with proving themselves to God through effort and ‘works’.
They truly want to go through the Tribulation.
They need it to prove to themselves and God they are “worthy” - As if they ever were or ever will be?
I always suggest that if they insist on proving themselves like Gold in Fire, just move to North Korea and proclaim the Gospel upon arrival - you’ll suffer your deserved ‘persecution’ there for Christ and have many tribulations.
Which is staggering.
Why wouldn't any sane reasonable person not want to avoid such a horrific time of God's judgment in which they are most likely going to die a very unpleasant death?????
And why the derision for those who hope to avoid it? Are they masochists or gluttons for punishment or what?
We're not looking to avoid it because we are weak or cowards or whatever they want to accuse us of.
We expect to avoid it because as born again believers, we are not appointed to judgment, we have passed from death into life and have already had our sins judged. We don't need to pay for them or be subject to judgement to get our attention to come to Christ. We're already there.
All the reasons God brings judgment on people do NOT apply to Christians. We are clothed in Christ's righteousness and God sees us in the sinless perfection of Jesus. What is there to judge or *purify*?
“Others doubt, dismiss, or scoff.”
Or, require Biblical evidence rather than merely wishing it to be so.
” scratching my head at why you think it’s a ‘horrific lie’ that you are projecting on those who believe in His Words about His Return? (John 14:3)”
What is going to be horrific is so many millions of self-proclaimed “Christians” who have repeated the sinner’s prayer, been promised a guaranteed admission into Heaven and escape from God’s wrath for saying words, been taught that believing will give them their “best life now”, and have been assured that though bad days are ahead, they will be among the fortunate who will be taken out of this world before the bad stuff comes, like persecution from the Antichrist, mark of the beast, etc. that are part of Daniel’s 70th week. These people will almost certainly fall away when they discover they’ve been lied to.
I’m not accusing you or any others here of spreading these lies. I’m just saying that the pretrib rapture idea is more aligned with the prosperity gospel than the true gospel of Christ.
“Guess we’ll continue to lock horns on the issue.
I’m stubborn that way and so are you.”
True. One or both of us will be corrected eventually when Christ returns.
“But a pre-tribulation rapture in no way changes any of that.”
What this changes is our expectations. For the past two thousand years believers have passed into eternity after going through various trials. And none of them had to face the Antichrist or the Great Tribulation. The idea that Christ may come at any moment presently and keep us from facing these things is an entirely different concept from the idea that the arrival of the Great Tribulation tells us Christ’s return has become imminent.
“Christ will still have Tribulation believers who come to Him during that tribulation and somehow survive, and for Him to gather to Himself and fulfill that prophecy, even if the church is removed before the Tribulation begins.”
The pre-trib rapture doctrine hinges on the “restrainer” being the Holy Spirit who is taken out of the world with the church. This is problematic because it is the Holy Spirit who equips the church to do things like evangelism. Paul asked how the unbeliever will hear and believe if there is no preacher. (See Romans 10 and 2 Thes 2.) Tribulation saints would not only have no one to preach the Gospel and no Holy Spirit to bring about the saving work, but they would also have no empowerment to fulfill the Great Commission. (See Matthew 24.)
The idea of a separate group of believers coming to Christ apart from the church is also problematic because it is a time of great deception from Satan and the antichrist and strong delusion sent from God.
“Also, during the Tribulation, the wedding feast of the Lamb is occurring in heaven. Since the church is the body of Christ, she is the Bride, the one whom Christ is marrying. She needs to be there for her own wedding.”
Revelation 19:7 NKJV
Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.
Revelation 21:2 NKJV
Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
The marriage appears to occur AFTER the Great Tribulation.
“Nor are Christians destined for judgment. Christ mentions that several times in the gospels as well.”
Believers are rescued from God’s wrath and from condemnation. The events of Daniel’s 70th week through the Great Tribulation are the same kinds of things that the Church has experienced for millennia. On the other hand, the trumpet and bowl judgments of Revelation contain God’s wrath and are part of the Day of the Lord. But these things come AFTER the Great Tribulation.
“Also, the Tribulation is about God fulfilling His promises to Israel and bring her to the place of accepting Christ as her Messiah.”
It is the purpose of Daniel’s 70th week according to Daniel 9. But WHEN will Israel turn to Christ? Not generally. Specifically. What part of Daniel’s 70th week? What will trigger this repentance?
“God delivers the righteous from judgment, just like Noah from the Flood, Lot from the destruction of the cities of the plain, and Rahab from Jericho.”
The timing of Noah’s flood and the destruction of Sodom are specifically cited by Christ in relation to His return. The flood represents the scope of God’s coming wrath (i.e. global). The destruction of Sodom represents the type of destruction (i.e. fire). These sudden, cataclysmic destructions are NOT similar to the slow unfolding of events of the early part of Daniel’s 70th week or even the Great Tribulation which begins in the middle. See Matthew 24, 1 Thessalonians 5, 2 Thessalonians 1, 2 Peter 3, and Revelation 5-7.
When you read Matthew 24 and the example of Noah as an indicator of the timing of Christ’s return, you will find it is clearly connected to His visible, glorious return AFTER the Great Tribulation. The disciples asked Christ for the signs of His coming. He gave them the signs. Then He specifically spoke of His coming in verse 30 as being AFTER the Tribulation. This subsequent discussion of Noah and the discussion of Sodom elsewhere (Luke 17:32) relate to what comes AFTER Christ’s return. You and other pre-trib advocates are confusing the signs of Christ’s coming (which come before His return) with the fiery judgments that follow.
The signs are the way we watch for Christ’s coming. They are not what we are being delivered from. How do you watch for Christ’s return with no signs? We are watching and waiting. We watch for the signs. We wait patiently through the tribulations. Those who are ready will escape the wrath to come.
The same way He worked in the OT before He indwelt believers as he does the church.
The signs are the way we watch for Christ’s coming. They are not what we are being delivered from. How do you watch for Christ’s return with no signs? We are watching and waiting. We watch for the signs. We wait patiently through the tribulations.
The signs are already happening all around us, the beginning of birth pangs.
Surely you don't expect everything to be just fine until the rapture occurs then everything falls into place instantly.
We're watching the stage being set even now for things like the moral degradation as in the days of Noah, one world religion, one world currency, one world government, the technology that will implement the mark of the beast, the kind of surveillance state that allows for that kind of world wide control, even the conditioning of the minds of unbelievers to get on board with such a scenario, etc.
Surely you can't think all that could happen overnight.
Besides, *tribulations* which we can all expect to have in this life, is not the same thing as the Great Tribulation.
I have yet to meet a rapture denier who does not deliberately conflate the two and use the terms interchangeably.
Those who are ready will escape the wrath to come.
Wait, I thought you didn't think believers were going to do that, that they would have to endure it because there was no rapture.
It’s hardly wishing. There’s at least a dozen verses which I have posted to you and other deniers ad nauseum over and over again.
Lastly, for you to lump the PreTrib in with Prosperity Gospel is massively naive and shows your lack of attention to the theology of those who agree doctrinally with this Eschatology.
Max Lucado and Rick Warren are both apostate heretics who may agree with it, but the rest of their teachings are not something I would ever agree with.
“Why wouldn’t any sane reasonable person not want to avoid such a horrific time of God’s judgment in which they are most likely going to die a very unpleasant death?????”
—Because they allow the enemy to fill their heads with lies. The box God in and don’t think He can or will do what He has always done to His People, which is Save Them.
“And why the derision for those who hope to avoid it? Are they masochists or gluttons for punishment or what?”
—Pride and again the enemy influencing and infiltrating the minds of Christians not willing to read and study His Word regarding the issue. Heck most churches now accept LGBTQP’s, why not accept the attitude that the PreTrib Rapture is a “lie”?
“What is there to judge or *purify*?”
—The evil unbelieving world and Israel. The Tribulation is not for Christ’s Bride - the Church.
These people actually don’t say it, but they articulate and think that Christ must be Re-Crucified for His People.
This is exactly how they think.
“The same way He worked in the OT before He indwelt believers as he does the church.”
Perhaps, but it sounds like it is based on speculation. Where is the biblical support for such a monumental argument?
Do a study on the Holy Spirit, the Gospel, the mystery of the church, and the New Covenant. I believe you will find that what you’re proposing does not fit. The coming of the Holy Spirit was a fulfillment of God’s plan and prophecy. It is part of the mystery of the church. He abides forever. Even in Revelation 5:6, the seven Spirits of God are sent forth into all the earth.
Revelation 5:6 NKJV
And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth.
Why would God contradict the message to the Hebrews by reverting back to the Old Covenant rather than fulfilling it and bringing His people Israel into the New Covenant?
Acts 2:16-21 NKJV
But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: “And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams. And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days; And they shall prophesy. I will show wonders in heaven above And signs in the earth beneath: Blood and fire and vapor of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD. And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the LORD Shall be saved.”
Jeremiah 31:31-34 NKJV
Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, “Know the Lord,” for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.
Ezekiel 36:24-28 NKJV
For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land. Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God.
Same Gospel remains, same New Covenant remains, same Holy Spirit remains and is given to believers, and who was not given to all under the Old Covenant. The Great Commission was empowered by the Holy Spirit. It is impossible without Him. Yet the same Gospel and same Great Commission continue in the Great Tribulation and until Christ’s return AFTER the Great Tribulation.
Matthew 24:14 NKJV
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
John 7:39 NKJV
But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
Acts 1:8 NKJV
But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.
Galatians 3:1-2 NKJV
O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
I suggest reading all of Hebrews 10. I won’t post it all here, but I’ll make a few points from it. The Law could not do what Christ did to atone for sin. God fulfilled the prophecies of the New Covenant, the coming of the Holy Spirit, and the Gospel of grace. The author admonishes the readers to hold fast to these things and not draw back to the Old Covenant now that the New had come. He encourages them to continue to persevere through the trials they faced, waiting and watching for the return of Christ at the Day of the Lord, when “fiery indignation” will be poured out on the enemies of the Gospel.
“The signs are already happening all around us, the beginning of birth pangs.”
Perhaps they have begun. Only time will tell if ALL of the signs come to pass now and in the sequence Christ gave us. We have to watch. But the idea of signs is incompatible with an “any moment” rapture that has always been the linchpin of the pre-trib doctrine.
“We’re watching the stage being set even now for things like the moral degradation as in the days of Noah, one world religion, one world currency, one world government, the technology that will implement the mark of the beast, the kind of surveillance state that allows for that kind of world wide control, even the conditioning of the minds of unbelievers to get on board with such a scenario, etc.”
True. Yet we are still here. I suggest we will remain here and face Antichrist. It is the role of the last generation of church-age believers to face the greatest time of trial and persecution against God’s people ever. It will be with God’s supernatural help, protection, and indwelling Holy Spirit, who will not be “taken out of the way”.
“Surely you don’t expect everything to be just fine until the rapture occurs then everything falls into place instantly.”
Correct, I do not expect this. This is why Daniel’s 70th week does not arrive as a sudden cataclysmic event. However, the Day of the Lord does arrive suddenly and cataclysmically, just as the second coming does, starting with the rapture. Daniel’s 70th week begins with deception and false peace. Nothing cataclysmic. The Day of the Lord arrives with Christ appearing to the whole world, causing everyone to weep and wail. This will be rapidly followed by the judgments of fire (like Sodom’s destruction) poured out by angels.
“Besides, *tribulations* which we can all expect to have in this life, is not the same thing as the Great Tribulation.”
True, but tribulations are not the same thing as God’s wrath. It cannot be argued that the promise of deliverance from God’s wrath necessitates the church being removed from the world during the Great Tribulation or the beginning of sorrows.
“I have yet to meet a rapture denier who does not deliberately conflate the two and use the terms interchangeably.”
First, I do not deny the rapture. There is a distinct event of the church being raptured. It is different and apart from when Christ returns to the earth. These two events bookend a time period that is referred to by many terms: Day of the Lord, Day of Christ, Day of God, Day of Wrath, the End, and the Second Coming.
Second, I do not consider tribulations to be the same as the Great Tribulation. However, I use the biblical teachings about tribulations to illustrate that they are not the same thing as God’s wrath. Tribulations are ever-present. God’s wrath is ever-present but is being stored up for the Day of Wrath. Believers are never exempt from tribulations but are always exempt from experiencing God’s wrath. Crucial difference.
It seems to me that ALL pre-trib promoters conflate the Great Tribulation with the Day of the Lord/Day of Wrath. And I have provided MANY scriptural reasons they are distinct.
“Wait, I thought you didn’t think believers were going to do that, that they would have to endure it because there was no rapture.”
I don’t know how you can get that idea from what I’ve been posting on the subject for many years. To clarify my position...
The signs of Christ’s second coming occur in Daniel’s 70th week, including the beginning of sorrows and the Great Tribulation. After the Great Tribulation ends, Christ comes a second time. His second coming is marked first by the rapture. The time period of the “second coming” is the time of God’s wrath being poured out. This will include the trumpet and bowl judgments. After His wrath is completed, Christ will return to the earth, end the reign of Antichrist, and set up His earthly kingdom. His return to the earth is the event that concludes the time period known as the “second coming” or Day of the Lord.
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