Posted on 08/16/2023 6:39:10 AM PDT by zucchini bob
(2 Peter 1:20) Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. (Isaiah 28:10) For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: (Isaiah 28:13) But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
"Indirectly received"??? What do you think the seven sacraments are?
Oh, I get it. You and Bishop Barron use that same term to tell the Jews they need not convert to Christianity. Instead, they can receive Christ's grace "indirectly".
My flesh is true food and my blood is true drink.
It was believed until the time of Luther and the Protestant Rebellion. Why do you think it’s a cup of death of you do not discern the body and blood of our Lord?
Keep reading.
Yep. I like the New King James Version and am quite fond of the NIV. I often compare the two of them when reading and find no difference in meaning.
Back up that pagan statement with specifics.
Of course there is the Bar and Bat Mitzvah where 13 year olds are considered to be Jewish adults.
Sounds like it.
I have had long arguments with people before only to find out we were both confused about the other...and were arguing the same side of a topic.
Either we both lost the argument...or we both won.;-)
Yes, because it was suggested Mary was not without sin because of that verse.
The Angel Gabriel was sent by God to a virgin, named Mary and said “Hail full of grace, the Lord is with you!”
This is the only biblical instance where an angel addresses someone by title and not name. While “full of grace” comes from St Jerome’s Latin vulgate it lacks some of the depth of the Greek word which means that God has already “graced” Mary previous to this point. God endowed Mary with an abundance of grace for the vocation of divine motherhood.
Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit, and she exclaimed with a loud cry:
“Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!”
Jesus as incarnate by the Holy Spirit, the union of divinity with humanity.
While there are many opinions and some false beliefs about our Christian beliefs, we should strive to know, understand and believe in God’s truth and not Man’s or the devil truth.
If we read and understand God’s Truth in the Bible that was passed down from the teachings of Jesus and the Sacred Traditions of Jesus and the Apostles verbally. Some beliefs we have to accept on faith as our human nature may not allow us yet to fully understand some divine truths.
As the Bible reports Jesus established one Church, now known as the Catholic Church with Jesus as the head and baptized members on earth (The Militant), those in Purgatory (The Suffering) and those in Heaven (The Triumphant). The Militant with the help of grace are learning to follow the path that leads to the narrow gate.
As Christians we need to fully understand and believe in God’s Truth. We need to beware of false prophets. (Mt 7). God wants unity in his church. Some of God’s truths are hard to follow, but we need to follow God and not our own wants.
From the very beginning there have been followers who listened to Jesus but did not accept his teachings and followed false truths (heresies) from man or the devil.
We need to focus on our path to salvation by following God’s Truth and not man’s (or the devil’s) version of God’s truth.
As Jesus warned us the ways of the world will try to lead us away from Him and we will be persecuted.
We can see this in the divergent on how we believe and worship God within the Christian community.
We can see it in our government in some of the false policies they pursue and attempt to punish Christian beliefs.
—> Back up that pagan statement with specifics.
You didn’t need a single fact to make your wild claims earlier.
Why would you require a fact now???
And that's absolutely correct.
Read the entire chapter of John 6 from beginning to end and you will see that this statement of Jesus demonstrates a contrast with what he is saying in earlier verses.
He spends all the early verses talking about bread and introducing himself as the Bread of Life. And then, starting in verse 51, drives the point home with his incredibly hyperbolic (but true) statement that the Bread of Life is his flesh.
As in all the Bible, context is everything.
As an aside, check out my tagline.
Original sin is simply the state we are born in as lacking the strengths God originally gave to Adam and Eve but which they lost due to choosing to disobey God. It is possibly not the best way to put it, as then we have to clarify that personal sin is when we ourselves act contrary to God’s laws, but it is the term used since the ECF, from Romans 5:18-19: Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Marian worship dates to the mid-200’s AD.....prior to any of the first Church Councils out of which flows the magisterium
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub_tuum_praesidium
The Scriptures reveal that The Father, The Son, and The Spirit all have the attributes.
They are all different Persons.
There is only one God.
This forms the understanding that there is only one God who is Three.
Christ-Plus? None of what you write is truth, fiction in your mind.
So you’re saying Christ does not want us to be Baptized into his Death?
Not want us to share in his Body and Blood of Thanksgiving Worship?
Not want to be confirmed, and filled with the Holy Spirit?
Not lay hands on his disciples?
Not enter into marital union without God joining together?
.
These Sacred Graces you dismiss may not be necessary for you-
does not mean they can’t be essential to those of a Christian following,
who trace them back to Christ and his Apostles, through Scripture…
and have kept that Faith to this day.
These Sacred Graces conveyed THROUGH him, and with him and in him, are not Christ-plus … but ALL-Christ eternal.
—> But We are ONLY saved through the GRACE of Christ, indirectly received.
Salvation does not come indirectly. Only directly from Him.
.
PLEASE RE-Read. I type his Grace is indirectly RECEIVED. RECEIVED.
.
I never said God’s Grace did not come to us directly.You’re trying to insinuate that.
Yes Salvation comes directly FROM Christ, ONLY Christ.
How many times do I need to repeat that for you?
.
Now let’s talk about OUR RECEIVING side of that equation.
As I said, You can’t EARN that Grace… You can’t take it as yours
Or Proclaim it as yours….
.
Saving Grace can ONLY be RECEIVED INDIRECTLY. Unless you’re Pelagius.
Look it up - INDIRECT MEANS (Oxford) not directly caused by or resulting from something. (Merriam) not directly aimed at or achieved
So there is nothing you do, to direct God’s Grace for your reception.
Knowing that, and I’m sure you’ll want to agree with it…
I don’t think you actually believe it. Are you Pelagian?
The rest of it all - the costumery, “holy water, rituals, pantheon of manufactured saints,
never save nor bring salvation.
They are pagan rituals bolted onto the Gospel.
More red-herring fallacy.
The Church has NEVER taught sacramentals like Holy Water bring salvation.
Your just making that up.
Like the Crucifix, which IS an icon of our Salvation,
Still does not bring us Salvation- but yet does keep us Focused on Christ-
and a Christ-centered life for us in this world.
As daily sinners, we need daily reminders - rituals to think of Christ, and remind us of His Sacrifice.
The battle is a daily spiritual battle.
We take the Cross into this battle, and not for the sake of being saved.
We can’t earn that.
Blessed (must be) are those who do not need anything to keep Christ central in their lives.
No. I never said that.
Nor any of the other things you list. You made that all up.
I said they give no grace that leads to salvation. None. Salvation comes through faith in Christ alone.
Your posting:
“What about the book of Acts?
Acts 16:30-31:
And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.”
Having faith is the start which leads to Baptism, the Mass and the Sacraments as established by Jesus. See Acts 16:15
Jesus told us in John 6:53 et al that one that does not eat and drink His Body and Blood that He established at Last Supper, then they have no life (eternal life). When Jesus blessed, broke the bread and gave to them, His disciples on the road to Emmaus after the Resurrection recognized Him in the Eucharist. In the early Christian community, “breaking of the bread” was used as a description of a eucharistic liturgy. Acts2:42
Many use one sentence or quote from the Bible to justify a position, but often ignore other teachings from Jesus that don’t agree with their point of view.
Jesus established one church (now known as the Catholic Church), the Mass and the 7 Sacraments to help us in the process to find the narrow gate for our salvation.
One should have faith in all the words of Jesus that Jesus taught us for our salvation (eternal life with God).
The drawback of that from Romans 3 is that, of course, Jesus was 100% human (and 100% God) and He never sinned.
Mary’s “sinlessness” - just to be precise, is considered God protecting her from sin - not her own “greatness” in any way.
The reasoning behind this was to emphasise to the Arians that Jesus was born God — that He was God in the womb, God from the point of conception.
The various speculations that Jesus was “adopted” or conferred Godhood (different heresies choose different times when this adoption happened - some at birth, others in the temple, others at the baptism) - but the Church said “No, He was God in the womb, God from the point of conception” - and correspondingly “God’s presence in the ark signifies that God kept His entrance “ark” sinless and pure”
All of it is to point to her son - Jesus, God and Man — her role was accepting God’s plan for her
The belief that the God bearer was free of sin does not mean that the parents of Mary were the same.
Just as the ark was blessed to be holy - the “holiness” of the ark was purely the emanation from the Holy One within.
Mary’s role is purely to point towards her son — Our Lord and God. She is nothing without Him, the belief is that she was kept from sin by God, not by her own actions (or non-actions) and that belief is all about God, about the wondrous actions of God, not of Mary
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