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To: SoothingDave
Just like God provide the Eucharist to accomodate our linear time

That may be. But the one sacrifice occurred 2000 years ago, right? If atonement can be 2000 years in the past -- and then made present, why can't forgiveness be 10 years in the past -- and then made present?

This all for one, one time forgiveness doesn't fit the human pattern, as far as I can tell.

You could say the same for Jesus's "once for all time" atoning sacrifice. Still, the church teaches that the re-presentation of this sacrifice in the eucharist is not a "sacrificing again", but instead is a "making present" of the "once for all time" sacrifice.

Knowing that I was "already forgiven" I might be tempted to go ahead and sin.

So could knowing that your sins are already atoned for.

Whereas knowing that I would need to repent again, might change my mind.

In either scenario, you would need to repent (return to the right path) again.

65,352 posted on 08/18/2003 8:48:35 AM PDT by malakhi (Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.)
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To: malakhi
That may be. But the one sacrifice occurred 2000 years ago, right? If atonement can be 2000 years in the past -- and then made present, why can't forgiveness be 10 years in the past -- and then made present?

You could say the same for Jesus's "once for all time" atoning sacrifice. Still, the church teaches that the re-presentation of this sacrifice in the eucharist is not a "sacrificing again", but instead is a "making present" of the "once for all time" sacrifice.

I'm not sure we're connecting here. I'll try again.

Christ was sacrificed once. In history. To us, here, it is a done deal.

On the other hand, God uses the grace from the sacrifice to affect our lives constantly. The crucifixion happened once, but we can access its merits anytime through the Eucharist.

Likewise, the forgiveness available becasue of Jesus is available constantly. The forgiveness, too, comes from the Crucifixion. It is an effect, the Crufixion is the cause.

The first time I am forgiven sins by God is an effect of the Crucifixion. So is the 2nd, 3rd, and 654th time. They look back to the Cross, as the casue of the forgiveness.

The first time I was forgiven, then, is not an event from which to draw future forgiveness. The Cross is where to draw future forgiveness from.

When I take communion, I am not celebrating my First Communion again. I am celebrating the Event, the Crucifixion.

The pattern is that somethign happened once. But God makes the effects of that Event available to us at all times. I don't reach back to a previous incident of accessing the Event, I reach back to the Event itself.

SD

65,363 posted on 08/18/2003 9:03:26 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: malakhi
Knowing that I was "already forgiven" I might be tempted to go ahead and sin.

So could knowing that your sins are already atoned for.

My sins are not "already" forgiven. That's my point. The atonement was made, but it is not applied to me until I repent and ask for forgiveness. There is no "already."

That's my point. I don't think it is possible to truly "repent" and to desire wholeness and forgiveness for somethign we have not done yet. It defies experience.

Certainly God didn't give the Israelites a one-shot forgiveness for all sins past and future. Every year they need to examine themselves and desire forgiveness for what they have done.

SD

65,365 posted on 08/18/2003 9:07:11 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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