Birds of a Feather: Several themes for wayward cardinals

Seattle Catholic ^ | 4/27/2002 | Peter Miller

[sinkspur]

We already have enough heterodox priests.

Point out to me where I'm "heterodox". You troglodytes who think someone who questions mandatory celibacy is deserving of excommunication must have a great time peeking under your neighbors' beds.

[sinkspur]

Do you think -- or have any way of knowing -- whether the incidence of molesting children was the same or lower or higher in earlier decades? Was it merely better secrecy that kept priests trusted?

No one has any way of knowing. Who would believe, in 1940, that a Bing Crosby, Barry Fitzgerald-type priest would molest a minor?

The incidence of abuse has never been high, but covering-up, blaming the victim, and completely ignoring their pain has been a hallmark of the Church.

[sinkspur]

Claiming the changeability of Church doctrine, as you have done, is another matter.

Where did I do that?

[Lady In Blue]

Help us honor our priests this Father's Day!

Recent news stories have focused national attention on a relatively few Catholic clergy involved in terrible scandals. The vast majority of our priests, however, continue to offer themselves daily in faithful and selfless service to the Church and its people.

Our Sunday Visitor would like to honor those priests who have been models of Christ's love for you, our readers, If you know such a priest, please send us his name, parish or ministry, city and state, along with a brief tribute of 25 to 50 words, describing his work, his spirit, and his impact on you or your local community.

All entries must be received by Friday, May 24, so don't delay! We plan to publish as many of these tributes as possible in our Father's Day issue of June 16, 2002.

Send your entries to:

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My Daily Visitor Verse of the Day for Sunday, May 5, 2002:

Sixth Sunday of Easter
Bible Verse: Let all the earth cry out to God with joy. -- Psalm 66

Mass readings: Acts 8: 5-8, 14-17 / 1 Peter 3: 15-18 / John 14:15-21

Prayer: This is a mystery too great for me, Jesus. I yearn for that experience of union. Are You really that close to me?

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[maryz]

The incidence of abuse has never been high, but covering-up, blaming the victim, and completely ignoring their pain has been a hallmark of the Church.

In the current crisis, the incidence of abusers may not be that high, but the incidence of abuse skyrocketed. I do recall (acctually it came back to me this morning) seeing an article in the Boston Herald when Geoghan was first hitting the papers that said the "treatment" facility he was sent to used a textbook (written by a priest and a nun) that emphasized that the celibate too had to express their sexuality.

That's all the article cited from the book (the Herald, after all, sees itself as a family newspaper), but it quoted a psychologist who reviewed the book who said something like, "My God, this is psychobabble -- it's like a how-to manual for sex offenders!" I don't think that would been possible pre-Vatican II.

I think the Derbyshire article got me thinking, too, that not only did the timing of Vatican II coincide with the sexual revolution, but also with what we may call the "drug revolution" (can we count the rise of the self-esteem movement here?). The 60s really were a hotbed of truly crazy ideas, and way too many in the Church lapped them up with a spoon and used Vatican II as a means to incorporate them into the Church's practice. Many here have pointed out the chasm between Vatican II documents and what was too often the implementation.

[Steve0113]

I'll bet a million dollars there isn't a person on this thread who can honestly say they have heard a sermon about the NECESSITY of one having Sanctifying Grace in their soul at the time of death.

I'll take that bet. Wire transfer will be fine. ;)

I should mention that my parish is unusual in that there are literally zero abuses or disobedience. The preaching is above average, and the CCD and RCIA programs are superb. About 25 people are received into the Church each Easter.

Makes for a loooong Vigil Mass, though.

[Steve0113]

Forgot to mention: I'm sure it's just a coincidence, but the church is packed, standing-room-only, every Sunday.

[AlguyA]

One of the prime motivations for celibacy is the witness value it brings in the modern world. I question how much the average Catholic even cares that their priests are unmarried. I think it matters not a whit to the vast majority of them.

Of course, the 'vast majority' (approximately 70%) don't believe in the Real Presence and in the most infamous poll ever taken, the 'vast majority' chose Barabas.

[sinkspur]

Of course, the 'vast majority' (approximately 70%) don't believe in the Real Presence and in the most infamous poll ever taken, the 'vast majority' chose Barabas.

I don't accept your statistic; I've seen it quoted, but never attributed to any reputable source.

I'm just not sure what first century Jews have to do with 21st century Catholics and their potential acceptance of a married clergy, other than as your vehicle to imply that those who might favor the latter are somehow like those who directly sent Jesus to his crucifixion. Nice try, though.

[Catholicguy]

Help us honor our priests this Father's Day!

NOt a bad idea. My wife and I honor our priest with presents on Holy Thursday.

[Steve0113]

I don't accept your statistic; I've seen it quoted, but never attributed to any reputable source.

Click here for the poll results. Scroll down to "Second Poll Results".

[sinkspur]

Sounds like this St. Augustine Center has an agenda. If they wrote the poll questions, I believe the results even less.

[AlguyA]

"I'm just not sure what first century Jews have to do with 21st century Catholics and their potential acceptance of a married clergy, other than as your vehicle to imply that those who might favor the latter are somehow like those who directly sent Jesus to his crucifixion. Nice try, though."

Then allow me to explain. Truth is not determined by majority-rule. For example, a 'vast majority' of Americans thought Clinton's 'private life' should have no bearing on his fitness to be President.(Is this example a little more up-to-date for you?)

[AlguyA]

'Sounds like this St. Augustine Center has an agenda. If they wrote the poll questions, I believe the results even less."

Perhaps you would care to provide us with an alternative statistic on believe in the Real Presence.

[sinkspur]

Truth is not determined by majority-rule.

What does "truth" have to do with the discipline of celibacy?

The Church allows married men to become priests today, as long as they are Episcopalian or Lutheran first.

The Church could change the discipline tomorrow universally.

The "truth" would be that mandatory celibacy exists today, and tomorrow it would be "true" that it didn't.

[sinkspur]

Perhaps you would care to provide us with an alternative statistic on believe in the Real Presence.

Nope. But I did note that there were no statistics as to how many "traditional" Catholics believed in the Real Presence. Maybe it wasn't much better.

Hearing four alternative questions over the telephone and being told to pick one is not a very reliable way to poll on an intensely theological issue like the Real Presence.

I suspect the St. Augustine Center knew that, and they got precisely the result they were looking for.

[AlguyA]

"Nope. But I did note that there were no statistics as to how many "traditional" Catholics believed in the Real Presence. Maybe it wasn't much better."

ROFLOL!