Can the Bishops Heal the American Church?

Crisis: Politics, Culture & the Church | June 2002 | George Sim Johnston

[maryz]

Crisis does have a website, but the current issue is not posted.

I think Sims makes some very good points, though I wish he had been more forceful and less diffuse.

[maryz]

This article is, in any case, a great deal better than today's column in The Wall Street Journal by Archbishop Harry J. Flynn. I haven't checked to see if it's on the free part of their website for posting, but to give you the flavor of it, "Over the past decade, we have learned that we are facing a solvable problem. Bishops around the country have put in place programs that work." Not one word about homosexuality in the priesthood and hierarchy.

I don't recall ever having heard of Archbishop Flynn before. According to the blurb in the WSJ, "Archbishop Flynn is arachbishop of St. Paul-Minneapolis and chairman of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops' Ad Hoc Committee on Sexual Abuse." Maybe some of you know more about him.

[Catholicguy]

This really is the Time of the Laity. The Bishops will not put anything effective into place and even if they did, the "policies" will have no forceful effect as the Bishop's conference has no authority. It's only "authority" is if individual Bishops decide to abide by the policy. And we know that each Bishop runs or ignores his own Diocese as he desires. The Bishops oppose Rome and we think they will listen to their own non-authoritative rhetorical scaffolding erected to conceal as much as to heal?

It is time for the Laity to grow-up. We KNOW, or we should, which priests are trustworthy. We KNOW, or we should, which Bishops are trustworthy and Orthodox. We do NOT need Rome or the Bishop's Conference to tell us what to do.

It is OUR job to teach the Faith to our children. It is OUR job to assure our children are in a safe school if we do not homeschool. It is OUR job to either tithe to our local parish if it is orthodox or we can tithe to those in our communities that are worthy of help. It is OUR job to inform ourselves and other Catholics in our communities about those in the local Hierarchy and to PUBLICLY oppose heresy, schism, and evil as it presents itself and, more importantly, to publicly praise those acts and persons who are orthodox.

We have GOT to stop relying upon others to solve our problems

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

No mention of the 1961 ban on ordaining homosexuals. They're tempting fate if they think a program like Courage will mitigate the risk.

[american colleen]

. I recently talked to their one young man who described life in the East Coast seminary from which he was expelled for orthodoxy: lavish parties, plenty of liquor, never any silence, an openly gay vice-rector, a liturgy professor who assigns Protestant textbooks on the Eucharist and refers to the Blessed Sacrament as “bread” and transubstantiation as a “theory.” The only “good” news was that not all his fellow seminarians were gay: One had a girlfriend who regularly visited his bed with the tacit approval of his superiors.

It is time for these seminaries to be "outed" - I am sick and tired of the veiled references to "northeast" seminaries or "often referred to as the pink palace" seminaries... time to out them and reveal just which ones they are. We cannot fix the problem if we don't know where to start.

Thank you Mary for posting this column. It was quite good and I was heartened to see the word "homosexuality" used - I'm sick of the word pedophilia as it has almost nothing to do with this current situation. I just read an entire "Time" Magazine article (on the web) entitled "Can the Catholic Church be saved" - the article was silly and never once used the word homosexuality. Can't hurt anyone's feelings.

Even in so-called orthodox dioceses there can be found legions of heterodox administrators who have ruined seminaries and made a hash of CCD and Pre-Cano programs. This is where the courage of many bishops fails: They would rather get on with their administrators – some of whom may be openly contemptuous of the magisterium – than be a sign of contradiction. They simply let things happen.

GRRRRR... The changes were so gradual over the years that someone like me hardly noticed (I'm 42) and when I did experience vague discomfort, I thought it was ME that wasn't with the times - I wondered where my comforting, other-worldly, never changing Church went.

I am so mad this morning!

Wasn't Bishop Flynn the one who was sent to clean up the Gilbert Gauthe mess? I thought he was a "good guy"?

Did you see this? "Holy See Relaunches Reconciliation Bid with St. Pius X Fraternity"

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

Flynns article is in the subscriber section at opinionjournal.com

Archbishop Harry J. Flynn was born May 2, 1933, in Schenectady, New York. After receiving B.A. and M.A. degrees in English from Siena College, Loudonville, NY, he attended Mount Saint Mary's Seminary in Emmitsburg, Maryland, and was ordained to the priesthood on May 28, 1960, in Albany, NY. Then-Father Flynn served as an associate pastor, pastor, high school teacher, retreat master, and spiritual leader in several various assignments in the Diocese of Albany. He also served as the Dean, Vice Rector and Rector of Mount Saint Mary's Seminary from 1965-1979.

Ordained Bishop on June 24, 1986, Bishop Flynn served as the Bishop of the Diocese of Lafayette, Louisiana until being named Coadjutor Archbishop for the Archdiocese of Saint Paul and Minneapolis, Minnesota, in February of 1994. On October 1, 1995, Archbishop Flynn succeeded Archbishop John Roach as head of the Archdiocese of Saint Paul and Minneapolis.

Archbishop Flynn currently serves as Chairman of the Saint Paul Seminary Board of Trustees, Saint Paul; Chairman of the University of Saint Thomas Board of Trustees, Saint Paul; President of the Saint John Vianney Seminary Board of Directors, Saint Paul; and on the College of Saint Catherine Board of Trustees, Saint Paul. Archbishop Flynn is also a member of the United States Catholic Conference of Bishops (USCCB) Committee for Black Catholics; the USCCB Committee on Sexual Abuse; and the USCCB Committee on the Charismatic Renewal.

[zbogwan2]

St. Catherine also wrote: “It is essential to root out from the garden of the Church the rotten plants and to put in their place the good ones.”

Hope the church heeds these words of wisdom?

[maryz]

I subscribe to the print edition of the WSJ (for the editorial pages), but not to the website. If a subscriber doesn't post Flynn's article, maybe I'll type it in and post it later.

[maryz]

No mention of the 1961 ban on ordaining homosexuals. They're tempting fate if they think a program like Courage will mitigate the risk.

Well, Courage probably beats Dignity hollow. And I rather think Johnston is making the suggestion with reference to homosexuals already ordained.

[maryz]

I am sick and tired of the veiled references to "northeast" seminaries or "often referred to as the pink palace" seminaries...

Me, too. It's makes them sound more like Page Six or something rather than serious writers -- "Which well-known northeastern seminary . . .?"

The changes were so gradual over the years that someone like me hardly noticed

My own impression was changes were so fast and furious in the 70s your head would spin; I didn't have a clue about the homosexual subculture, but there are some things I remember now that make a bit more sense knowing it.

Can't help you on Flynn -- as I said, I'd never heard of him.

And I did see the article on St. Pius X Fraternity -- It was heartening to me. I felt sorry for LeFebvre at the time -- I though he was only driven to what he did by a more extreme form of what I was feeling. And all the far more destructive people who were allowed to run free at the same time!

[Catholicguy]

And I did see the article on St. Pius X Fraternity -- It was heartening to me. I felt sorry for LeFebvre at the time -- I though he was only driven to what he did by a more extreme form of what I was feeling. And all the far more destructive people who were allowed to run free at the same time!

The Pope and Cardinal Ratzinger bent over backwards to accomodate this disobedient man. A deal was arrived at to which he signed his name. The next day he recanted and, not long afterwards, ordained his own Bishops. The SSPX thinks it is the Catholic Church and that Rome is in Schism; it thinks the Mass of Paul VI is invalid or so deficient that assisting at it does not fulfill one's Sunday Obligation; it thinks the Ecumenical Vatican Two Council taught heresy; it thinks it can erect a mirror church with its own Jurisdiction, Mnistry, and Canon Law etc etc.

It is amasing how this great Shepherd, Pope John Paul II keeps seeking out these lost sheep and the lost sheep respond by attacking the Shepherd and refuse to enter the sheepgate until the Vicar of Christ submit to them, the schismatics, and admit that Vatican Two taught error and is not binding , that the normative Mass is deficient and/or invalid, that the Catechism teaches error, that Canon Law must be reconsidered etc etc

Click here to read what they believe in their own words

The Angelus

[sockmonkey]

In addressing 3 corrupt Italian Cardinals, Catherine of Siena also said:
"You are flowers who shed no perfume, but a stench which makes the whole world reek."

[Catholicguy]

Here is The SSPX as published in The Angelus January 1978, Volume I, Number 1 answers given by Father Carl Pulvermacher

Q. Aren't you being disobedient to the wishes of the Holy Father?

A. Yes, I am. However, you must understand that although obedience is good - Faith is better and is a virtue of higher rank. Our parents, our Priest, our Bishop or even the Pope cannot command me in obedience to do something against God or my soul. No power on earth is absolute. No one can command me to go to or partake of a Protestant service. "We must obey God rather than man." That was the answer of the Apostles when they were dragged before the Sanhedran.

Q. Why can't I go to the New Mass?

A. For some people it is obvious why a Catholic may not participate in the new service - the, so-called "Novus Ordo Missae." Others just can't see the reason. In Holy Mass we offer and worship Christ who is our sacrifice. In the new service is offered bread and wine, the work of human hands and the fruit of this world. In a word, the Novus Ordo Missae is a Protestant service which has been deceitfully handed to our non-suspecting Catholic people. Unbelieveably, it has been done by our bishops "in the spirit of Vatican II."

Q. Do I fulfill my Sunday obligation by going to the New Mass?

A. No. The Church obliges Catholics to keep holy the Sundays and Holy Days by hearing one whole Mass if they are able to do so. If there is no Mass available, but only the New Mass, I must skip it and keep Holy the Lord's Day by doing the next best thing.

[maryz]

Thanks for the link!

[sockmonkey]

I don't see Archbishop Flynn as one of the "good guys". I read recently that 9 of 11 Catholic Schools got high marks from the Gay Lesbian Bisexual transgendered whatever it is organization for their curriculum.

I also believe he is the Archbishop who let Richard Sparks, the author of the notorious "Growing in Love" curriculum personally introduce this curriculum to the Catholic educators in Minneapolis-yes, I've seen the actual materials, and they mention d*ldoes, bestiality, and other such things that are sooo important for Catholic school children to be versed in. If I sound like I'm ranting-I am. I will post links to my wild claims when I settle down a bit.

[Gerish]

You are absolutely 100% right! Also, if you know your Bishop is liberal, starting withholding your MONEY! Believe it or not, the laity hold the power of the purse in their hands which I believe is the only thing that will get through to some of these Bishops!

[ThomasMore]

The crisis is mostly, however, about active homosexuals in the priesthood. Anyone (including an archbishop) who does not admit this is simply part of the problem.

It couldn't have been stated more clearly and precisely!

[Rum Tum Tugger]

Archbishop Harry J. Flynn ... attended Mount Saint Mary's Seminary in Emmitsburg, Maryland

According to Goodbye! Good Men, Mt. Saint Mary's is one of the most orthodox and non-gay seminaries in the U.S.

[ThomasMore]

which is going to involve, among other things, firing vocations directors, cleaning up the seminaries, and defrocking (with Rome’s permission) a number of priests.

This is an absolute MUST!

[american colleen]

It is amasing how this great Shepherd, Pope John Paul II keeps seeking out these lost sheep and the lost sheep respond by attacking the Shepherd and refuse to enter the sheepgate until the Vicar of Christ submit to them, the schismatics, and admit that Vatican Two taught error and is not binding , that the normative Mass is deficient and/or invalid, that the Catechism teaches error, that Canon Law must be reconsidered etc etc

I agree with you that JPII is a great shepherd, but while he has been trying to gather all the lost sheep (a wonderful and holy thing to do, IMO. I hope and pray for the reconcilliation of the Orthodox and flocks like the SSPX), JPII has been letting priests/teachers/bishops who are much less orthodox than the flocks JPII has been "echumening" with, teach and preach to the Catholics already in the fold. This has resulted in the mess that we are in now - starting before JPII but freefalling for the last 30+ years. I feel bad saying that, but I always remember that you should take care of your own house before you take care of someone else's. How can we be the light of the world with the state that the Church is in? IMO, the best way to echumenize others is to be a perfect example of Catholic Christianity.