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To: american colleen

But the faith says that we must be obedient to the Pope/Magisterium teaching, does it not? Not going to Mass because all there might be is the "Novus Ordo" is contrary to the faith. Jesus is Present in the "Novus Ordo", is he not? I would rather receive the Body of Christ in a "Novus Ordo" Mass than not receive Him at all. That said, I do love the Latin/Tridentine Mass.

Yes, we must be obedient to the Pope/Magisterium. But obedience is a matter of Justice. It is sinful to obey an unjust command (unjust in this case being contrary to God's Law). This is also a matter of faith.

As to whether or not we should attend the Novus Ordo if that is all that is available, is an interesting question. I have attended Novus Ordo masses where the priest has made it abundantly clear that he does not agree with the church's teaching on the sacrifice of the mass and the real presence. In this case, he would lack intent, which is required, and therefore would not consecrate the host, and I would not in fact be receiving Jesus. Also, the chances that I will hear a heretical homily at a Novus Ordo mass are very high based on my own experiences. Personally, I will attend the Novus Ordo if that is all that is available, but I have a hard time condemning the person who wishes to avoid it.

52 posted on 06/04/2002 9:09:23 AM PDT by Bellarmine
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To: Bellarmine
I have attended Novus Ordo masses where the priest has made it abundantly clear that he does not agree with the church's teaching on the sacrifice of the mass and the real presence.

NO KIDDING???? I almost fell off my chair.

54 posted on 06/04/2002 9:21:32 AM PDT by MarMema
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To: Bellarmine
As to whether or not we should attend the Novus Ordo if that is all that is available, is an interesting question.

It is the Mass available to virtualy ALL the Catholics on this Planet. In what WAY is it "an interesting question" as to whether or not one should attend?

BTW, where does your authority derive from so you can render judgements about which Liturgy of the Mass is acceptable according to the strictures of "justice" as understood by yourself and your personal opinions of Church Fathers? Us lesser lights need to know...

Try to imagine for one-half of one nano-second Aquinas or Bellarmine thinking that Holy Mother Church could promulgate an invalid or defective or illicit Mass?

The Mass is the Mass is the Mass. Liturgy changes the Mass does not. The Mass is the ACTION OF JESUS OFFERING HIMSELF THROUGH THE PRIEST.

Good grief. I lived long enough to hear Nixon tell Republicans "We are all Keynesians now," and I half expect some SSPX devotee or some other self-appointed authority to declare to Catholics, "We are all Protestants now."

64 posted on 06/04/2002 9:52:22 AM PDT by Catholicguy
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To: Bellarmine
Yes, we must be obedient to the Pope/Magisterium. But obedience is a matter of Justice. It is sinful to obey an unjust command (unjust in this case being contrary to God's Law). This is also a matter of faith.

Agreed, by your definition of unjust. It certainly clarifies the original post.

I have been so fortunate in my life - I have never attended a Mass where the priest was a dissenter in The Real Presence. Cardinal Law is pretty orthodox, and therefore, aside of the "normal" things that priests/bishops have done (removing altar kneelers, placing tabernacles on the side altars), I haven't come across a priest who teaches anything other than Christ is Present in the Eucharist. I would walk out if I did encounter that.

66 posted on 06/04/2002 9:57:05 AM PDT by american colleen
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