I Confess...........[The Complete Biblical Basis for Confession]

Envoy Magazine via CatholicExchange.com ^ | Tim Staples

[Polycarp]

ping...

[FormerLib]

To paraphrase another poster from a previous thread, " How dare you start this thread with all them Biblical quotes in your post? I know that must be real irritating to persons who have no tradition beyond their own personal interpretation (which we know has no prophecy)!"

[JMJ333]

You agent provocateur, you! lol

[Litany]

Excellent ! Irrefutable!

[narses]

Outstanding piece, thanks for posting it.

[american colleen]

Thanks Polycarp. I really enjoyed the post. I'm wondering why no Protestant has posted here in refutation of the original post. I wouldn't want to see a heated debate or anything, but I would like to understand why non-Catholics do not believe in confession as it is commanded in the Bible. Do you know what the Ortodox believe?

Confession and Communion are the two most wonderful gifts that we, as Catholics (and I suspect Orthodox), have.

[Polycarp]

I'm wondering why no Protestant has posted here in refutation of the original post...I would like to understand why non-Catholics do not believe in confession as it is commanded in the Bible.

RnMomof7, DrStevej,

Care to handle this?

[Polycarp]

Do you know what the Ortodox believe?

FormerLib,

Care to handle this?

[drstevej]

I did read the post but did not reply in large part because I am not familiar with Roman Catholic confessional and pennance practices and am not in a position to provide a critique in any detail.

As a non-Catholic who has been a church elder for many years I do believe that confession has a place in the spiritual life of an individual and the church. I encouarage believers to confess their sins to God without delay as soon as they are cognizant of their disobedience. We encourage believers to hold one another acountable spiritually and to intercede for one another in areas of spiritual struggle. We encourage people to examine themselves prior to coming to the table of the Lord and to seek reconciliation with their brother prior to partaking.

As an elder I do a good bit of pastoral counseling which includes discussing the counselee's spiritual life and areas of disobedience. Often there is a discussion of what the Bible says and a time of confession. Frequently, our elders are asked by individuals to pray for them and annoint them with oil. They either come to us or we go to them and confession is often a part of these sessions.

As elders we are involved in handling cases requiring church discipline and have sadly had to remove persistently unrepentant people from the fellowship. These discussions as elders are by far the most difficult issue we deal with since often the facts are hard to discern and the motives are even more elusive. We seek to honor the Scriptures in our handling of these cases and in the decisions we reach. We believe God will honor His word.

This post is not a critique of the article but hopefully it explains in brief fashion how one Protestant pastor and elder addresses the issue of confession practically.

From the little I do understand of Catholic confessional and pennance practices it does seem to be a far more elaborate system than I see in the Bible. On other posts I have discussed the issue of pennace and will not repeat that entire discussion and my biblical concerns here.

So Polycarp, feel free to freepmail me anytime you desire me to hear your confession, give you spiritual counsel and pray for you. Drstevej's e-fessional is open.

1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

[RnMomof7]

Actually I do not have a HUGE problem with the IDEA of confession.. I do take the admonition seriously that we are to confess our sins to one another. I think that we need to go to one we have sinned against and confess.

My "problem " with confession as practiced in the church are two fold .

First that the sin to be forgiven must be forgiven by the priest..but I do understand the RC believe he represents God..so in a representitive way I can live with that. But I think that the greater call is to confess to the offended and to forgive those that have offended you

My biggest problem is with penance.....

I believe that Christ paid for my sins..there is nothing I can do to pay the price..so to make absolution contingent on the completion of the penance looks like an attempt to pay the price for my own sin.

That is a price I could never pay ...one already paid on the cross.

I do not believe that confession is a matter of salvation one way or the other as long as the person understands that it is Christ not the priest that judges and forgives

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

John 20:23

In this verse Chirst only enjoins the apostles in His name to PROCLAIM the forgiveness of sins which is through the blood of Jesus Christ only.

Nowhere in the Book of Acts or in the Episles do we find any instance of an apostle remittng the sins of anyone. The do go everywhere, proclaiming the forgiveness of sins.

Even God cannot just arbitrarily forgive sins. Forgivenss of sins is only through the blood of Jesus Christ.

Back in the OT the forgivess of sins was based on people believing that a Messiah was coming who would come and die for their sins and the sins would be removed forever. Today sins are forgiven when we believe the the Messiah has already come and paid the price for our sins.

Becky

[narses]

"Even God cannot just arbitrarily forgive sins."

Wow. I forget the name of that heresy, but you either don't agree or forget that Jesus Christ, Our Lord, IS both True Man and True God. He IS God.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Wow. I forget the name of that heresy, but you either don't agree or forget that Jesus Christ, Our Lord, IS both True Man and True God. He IS God

I do agree and have not forgotten that Jesus Christ is both man and God. But He will not forgive sins of someone who does not believe that their sins are forgiven because He died for them, not because they told them to someone one and that person said they were forgiven.

Alot of people profess to believe in God, very few believe God.

Becky

[drstevej]

If God can arbitrarily forgive sins then Jesus was needlessly sent to the cross.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Amen:)

Becky

[FormerLib]

I'll just highlight the differences between the Eastern Orthodox and the Roman Catholic confession. First, the priest serves only as the witness to the confession. He does not even need to speak the same language as the confessor. When the confession is complete, the priest prays to God to forgive the sins of the person making the confession. There is no implication that the priest is the one forgiving the sin. The priest may, of course, offer guidance on how to avoid sin in the future.

Second, the act of confession is considered to be penance. The price of our sins was paid in full on the Cross, we can add nothing to that. The priest, however, may refuse to pray for forgiveness in certain circumstances. For example, if you've stolen something, the priest may require you to return it before praying for forgiveness.

Lastly, not all sins require a confession via a priest. Small sins, such as anger, can be confessed directly to God. Those sins which are severe enough to cause the seperation between yourself and the Church established by Jesus Christ should be confessed in the presence of a priest. Ultimately, all sin is judged by God.

Beyond these differences, the Orthodox Church would hold to the same basic understanding as the Roman Catholic Church.

[RnMomof7]

That is actully a pretty significant difference. Thank you for sharing that . I didn't realize the difference in the rites. I have fewer difficulities with that concept than the RC one.

I believe that God demands repentance. We need to see our sin and turn from it. I believe that true repetence is a gift from God.

The priest does not block true repentance by his presence , that is why I do not have strong opposition to it. If it is based on doing penence then I do. Jesus paid the price fully for every sin of mine ..past present and future..So the debt is already paid.

[Polycarp]

Please, don't spew forth your personal nonsense. Refute the article.

[narses]

So how does that fit John 20:21-23?

"Jesus said to them again, 'Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.' And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, 'Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.