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The Cardinal's Superdome
The American Prowler ^ | September 3, 2002 | George Neumayr

Posted on 09/03/2002 10:26:06 AM PDT by NYer

Missing from the endless line of church officials at Cardinal Roger Mahony's cathedral grand opening on Monday was one of its first associate pastors, Fr. Carl Sutphin. An accused molester, Sutphin held the title of associate pastor at the new "Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels" until Mahony cut him loose in the wake of the Boston church scandals.

Mahony knew of Sutphin's checkered clerical career for at least a decade. That troubled Mahony so much he gave him lodging at the new cathedral's apartments and appointed him associate pastor of the church. (Before that, Sutphin resided at the cardinal's previous apartments.)

Sitrick and Co., the cardinal's public relations firm which has counted Enron as one of his clients, wasn't yet on the scene. So Mahony can surely be forgiven that novel ecclesiastical appointment.

Last Friday, Mahony's troubles seemed far behind him as he practiced his homily for the grand opening with the aid of a TelePrompTer, reports the Los Angeles Times. Sitrick and Co. apparently thinks of everything.

It is too bad Sitrick and Co. can't also offer Mahony tutelage in the Catholic faith. Were Mahony's predecessors alive to see the grand opening of the cathedral, they would have wondered what new Protestant sect had arrived in La-La land.

The cathedral looks like a superdome for syncretism. Partially seen from Highway 101, the cathedral presents no obvious evidence of Catholicism. Drivers will assume it is a modern art museum, or perhaps an assembly hall for amorphous religious gatherings.

San Francisco has an equally confusing cathedral. It looks like a modern appliance. But at least people find it accessible. Not so with Mahony's new cathedral. "It is hard to get to," says Architect Frank Gehry.

But Mahony hopes to correct this little problem by asking taxpayers to build a new highway ramp. That should cost around $25 million.

The cathedral does, however, offer validation at its paid parking garage for mass goers. For others, parking will cost $2.50 for the first 25 minutes.

Mahony has to pay off his $200-million architectural experiment somehow. It turns out the archdiocese is in financial trouble. A hiring freeze is in place, and some church employees now worry about lay-offs. Mahony largely chalks up the archdiocese's woes to an anemic stock market. But his curious expenditures and doling out of hush money and cash settlements to sex abuse victims explain it as well.

Ever resourceful, Mahony has been generating cash by selling off crypts and burial sites at the new cathedral to the Richard Riordans and Rupert Murdochs of Los Angeles.

Why was this cathedral even necessary? ask many Catholics on both the right and the left. Mahony gave as one of his main reasons that the old cathedral wasn't safe. It had to go, he said, and assigned a wrecking crew to tear it town. But secular preservationists stopped him.

Mahony's real reason for establishing a new cathedral is that he is practicing a new religion. Whatever it is, it is not Catholicism. Eli Broad, a non-Catholic developer and Democratic Party godfather who helped finance the cathedral , calls it "architecture for the ages." Many Catholics, when they look up at the tapestries on the walls depicting people in sneakers and birkenstocks, will wonder if it can last even a generation as a Catholic building.

Not far from the fakery of Hollywood, appropriately enough, the cathedral represents faux Catholicism -- the very phony Catholicism that made it possible for the cardinal of the largest archdiocese in the country to make a molester one of its first associate pastors.


TOPICS: General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: cardinal; cathedral; catholic; catholiclist; mahony
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Were Mahony's predecessors alive to see the grand opening of the cathedral, they would have wondered what new Protestant sect had arrived in La-La land.

A gem!!

1 posted on 09/03/2002 10:26:06 AM PDT by NYer
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To: Siobhan; american colleen; sinkspur; livius; Lady In Blue; Salvation; Polycarp; narses; ...
Mahony's real reason for establishing a new cathedral is that he is practicing a new religion. Whatever it is, it is not Catholicism.

A reasonable assessment, don't you think?

2 posted on 09/03/2002 10:28:11 AM PDT by NYer
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To: ArrogantBustard
Many Catholics, when they look up at the tapestries on the walls depicting people in sneakers and birkenstocks, will wonder if it can last even a generation as a Catholic building. Thought you would appreciate this one!
3 posted on 09/03/2002 11:07:55 AM PDT by NYer
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To: NYer

This one give the full perspective of the interior. A closer inspection of those pews seems to reveal what we expected all along .. no kneelers.

4 posted on 09/03/2002 11:38:39 AM PDT by NYer
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To: NYer
The Episcopal Cathedral here at least has the little kneelers that slide out from under the seat in front.

5 posted on 09/03/2002 11:40:43 AM PDT by Desdemona
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To: NYer
I think it should be renovated and redecorated by Mark Loizeaux.
6 posted on 09/03/2002 11:53:52 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard
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To: NYer
NYer said, "tapestries on the walls depicting people in sneakers and birkenstocks"

Being 45 years old I have only the vaguest memories of pre-Vatican II times. And I think prior to Vatican II there probably was an oberabundance of fear, people pasting guilt onto others, a bit of superstition (people felt they were "guaranteed" entrance into heaven for wearing the scapular), the pope being carried on a throne, clericalism, triumphalism and the like.

But it sure seems that the reforms have gone a bit too far!
7 posted on 09/03/2002 11:55:45 AM PDT by Over50Million
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To: ArrogantBustard
"I think it should be renovated and redecorated by Mark Loizeaux."

LOLOLOL! I laughed right out LOUD!!

8 posted on 09/03/2002 12:17:09 PM PDT by redhead
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To: NYer
"Mahony's real reason for establishing a new cathedral is that he is practicing a new religion. Whatever it is, it is not Catholicism.
A reasonable assessment, don't you think?"

Based on the appearance of the "altar", I wonder if human sacrifice will be included?
9 posted on 09/03/2002 12:18:23 PM PDT by EODGUY
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To: Over50Million
This is clericalism run rampant. Do you think that Mahoney bothered to consult the laity. What astonishes me is the modernist's dislike of color. I gave up one local parish because everything was brown and beize. I found it oppressive.
10 posted on 09/03/2002 12:19:08 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: EODGUY
"Based on the appearance of the "altar", I wonder if human sacrifice will be included?"

I think a better question is what kind of human sacrifice?

Or is he planning to loaf fudge, maybe? I mean confectioners pay thousands for tables which look like that.
11 posted on 09/03/2002 12:21:17 PM PDT by Desdemona
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To: EODGUY
Based on the appearance of the "altar", I wonder if human sacrifice will be included?

I know who I'd push to the front of the sacrificial line - the little guy wearing the little hat.

12 posted on 09/03/2002 12:57:20 PM PDT by american colleen
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To: NYer
If you go to the Cathedral's website: http://www.olacathedral.org/ and view the virtual your, it claims that the pews are made of American cherry, fabricated in Mexico and have kneelers. Doesn't mention the chairs though.
13 posted on 09/03/2002 12:58:25 PM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: NYer
A production of VeskoVision.
14 posted on 09/03/2002 12:59:13 PM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: american colleen
You know, I posted this on another thread, but I was just thinking, our Dome here cost just over $250 million. Do you think if LA ever got another football team, Rog would rent them the superdome?
15 posted on 09/03/2002 12:59:59 PM PDT by Desdemona
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To: american colleen
I think I'd insist that he butt in line ahead of me as well.
16 posted on 09/03/2002 1:07:38 PM PDT by EODGUY
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To: EODGUY

PS. Good call on your part. If I were you, I'd be afraid, very afraid to have Rog stand behind you.

17 posted on 09/03/2002 1:14:27 PM PDT by american colleen
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To: Desdemona
Well, the players could hang out in the restaurant and the convention center for a price.
18 posted on 09/03/2002 1:15:54 PM PDT by american colleen
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
I can't find it at that link and the pictures posted here sure looks like there are no kneelers. Could you post the info from that site?
19 posted on 09/03/2002 1:16:23 PM PDT by Sock
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To: american colleen
I just noticed that these "nuns" are barefoot.
20 posted on 09/03/2002 1:16:45 PM PDT by american colleen
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To: american colleen
I'm looking at this church and it reminds me of the Rams' practice facility.
21 posted on 09/03/2002 1:18:23 PM PDT by Desdemona
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To: american colleen
Who are they?

Why are they barefoot?

What are they doing and is it Catholic?

22 posted on 09/03/2002 1:18:38 PM PDT by Sock
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To: Desdemona
No pun intended, I'm sure.
23 posted on 09/03/2002 1:18:58 PM PDT by american colleen
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To: Sock
Who the @$%$* knows!

Great, I have to drive to work in a bad mood again. I wish I hadn't come across that picture, the interior picture was bad enough. I just had to share the misery with you guys.

24 posted on 09/03/2002 1:20:27 PM PDT by american colleen
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To: redhead; ArrogantBustard

Just practicing for the big one!

25 posted on 09/03/2002 1:39:07 PM PDT by NYer
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To: RobbyS
RobbyS wrote, "Do you think that Mahony bothered to consult the laity?"

My first ever experience with diocesan maneuverings was about 15 years ago concerning a renovation of my parish. At that point I had not previoulsy ever read a Vatican II document (I was educated by Christian Brothers and then Jesuits, they weren't about to let me in on that dirty little secret that such documents existed and were available.)

In our little-league square-off, the powers-in-charge gathered their little club of modernist sycophants and thus claimed the "laity" was represented.

Being from the east-coast I have no idea what "Rog the god" actually did, but those experiences give me a good idea.
26 posted on 09/03/2002 2:14:29 PM PDT by Over50Million
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To: american colleen
Do they look bored, or what? Priests listen to welcome comments from Cardinal Roger Mahony during a ceremony and mass celebrating the opening of Our Lady of the Angels Cathedral Monday, Sept. 2, 2002 in downtown Los Angeles. The cathedral opened Monday amid prayers and controversy as protesters condemned the $195 million cost and Roman Catholics continued to struggle with a national sex abuse scandal. (AP Photo/Beatrice Degea, Pool)
27 posted on 09/03/2002 2:15:57 PM PDT by narses
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To: american colleen; Desdemona
No pun intended, I'm sure.

AC, do you mean Desde's use of the term "facility"?
28 posted on 09/03/2002 2:21:00 PM PDT by Over50Million
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To: NYer
Even the priests cover their faces.
29 posted on 09/03/2002 2:21:33 PM PDT by narses
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To: Sock

Cardinal Roger Mahony anoints the altar during the dedication ceremony for the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels Monday, Sept. 2, 2002 in Los Angeles. The newest U.S. cathedral opened Monday amid prayers and controversy as protesters condemned the $195 million cost and Roman Catholics continued to struggle with a national sex abuse scandal. (AP Photo/Nick Ut)

30 posted on 09/03/2002 2:28:16 PM PDT by narses
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To: NYer; CHOPPED LIVER; GatorGirl; tiki; maryz; *Catholic_list; afraidfortherepublic; Antoninus; ...
Mahony's real reason for establishing a new cathedral is that he is practicing a new religion. Whatever it is, it is not Catholicism. Eli Broad, a non-Catholic developer and Democratic Party godfather who helped finance the cathedral , calls it "architecture for the ages." Many Catholics, when they look up at the tapestries on the walls depicting people in sneakers and birkenstocks, will wonder if it can last even a generation as a Catholic building.
31 posted on 09/03/2002 2:31:39 PM PDT by narses
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To: narses
You will be able to tell by what use is made of it. It could become the Left Coast equivalent of St. John the Divine.
32 posted on 09/03/2002 2:40:04 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: NYer
Oh my gosh, but is that little brown coffee table in the middle of that mess supposed to be the altar?
33 posted on 09/03/2002 3:04:34 PM PDT by Gerish
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To: NYer
KNEELER UPDATE......


Click for Large Photo
 
A woman kneels at a pew prior to the second public mass September 3, 2002 at the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels in Los Angeles. The $193-million cathedral was dedicated in a religious service September 2. No photography was permitted during the mass. REUTERS/Fred Prouser

34 posted on 09/03/2002 3:48:39 PM PDT by Sock
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To: narses; NYer
I appreciate being pinged to these threads about Mahoney's Cathedral, but I just can't get worked up about it. Since it was financed privately and not on the backs on Los Angelenos, I find little to complain about as far as costs are concerned. Five or so years ago, a $100 million monstrosity was built in some third-world country amid absolute squalor, and the Pope defended its construction. Personally, that kind of money spent on a building dedicated to the One who had nowhere to lay is head is scandalous, to me.

As to the architecture itself, I prefer the cross-shaped churches, but much simpler. This Cathedral looks horrid from the outside, but not bad once inside.

35 posted on 09/03/2002 4:10:51 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: narses
Part of the financing was from the drug dealer Clinton pardoned and for whom Mahoney wrote a letter of recommendation.
36 posted on 09/03/2002 4:17:38 PM PDT by Tadhg
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To: Sock; sinkspur; Polycarp; ninenot; ArrogantBustard; JMJ333
A woman kneels at a pew

Nonsense!! Take a closer look at that picture. She is kneeling on the floor. I see NO kneelers in that picture and that is the best close up shot I've seen yet.

QUESTION!!! Over the past few weeks, I have watched the papal mass at Youth Day in Toronto, the canonization masses in Guatemala & Mexico, the papal mass in Poland, Dolan's mass from Milwaukee and now pictures from LA. In each instance, the invited clergy wore identical vestments. What's with this? Yes, it is nice to look out at a "uniform" assembly but what happens to those vestments, after these masses? This seems like another waste of money, or am I missing something here? Thanks for your response.

37 posted on 09/03/2002 4:22:53 PM PDT by NYer
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To: NYer
Nonsense!! Take a closer look at that picture. She is kneeling on the floor.

Unless her legs are four feet long, she's kneeling on a kneeler. THese look to be kneelers that slide out from under the pew in front.

38 posted on 09/03/2002 4:35:15 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: NYer
Over the past few weeks, I have watched the papal mass at Youth Day in Toronto, the canonization masses in Guatemala & Mexico, the papal mass in Poland, Dolan's mass from Milwaukee and now pictures from LA. In each instance, the invited clergy wore identical vestments. What's with this? Yes, it is nice to look out at a "uniform" assembly but what happens to those vestments, after these masses? This seems like another waste of money, or am I missing something here?

Likely these vestments are mass produced, and are given to the con-celebrant after the Mass.

It's not a waste of money unless they're given to Goodwill or something.

39 posted on 09/03/2002 4:37:18 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: NYer
Dear NYer,

The kneelers are pretty obvious after you look for a while.

Look at the seat of the pew of the kneeling woman. Look to the front edge of the seat. There are gray objects on the floor which visually abut the front of the seat of the pew. They extend a bit, and then you can see the floor itself.

sitetest
40 posted on 09/03/2002 4:44:50 PM PDT by sitetest
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To: narses
It certainly won't last a generation as a Catholic building unless it becomes one at some point. Maybe, if the scandals bankrupt the LA Archdiocese, maybe the US Bankruptcy judge can persuade some maroon of a creditor to take it away.
41 posted on 09/03/2002 4:52:55 PM PDT by BlackElk
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To: BlackElk
It certainly won't last a generation as a Catholic building unless it becomes one at some point.

My sentiments exactly.

42 posted on 09/03/2002 5:09:17 PM PDT by Snuffington
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To: Over50Million
AC, do you mean Desde's use of the term "facility"?

Depends on whose asking... ;-)

43 posted on 09/03/2002 5:27:02 PM PDT by american colleen
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To: american colleen
whose = who's

oh my.

44 posted on 09/03/2002 5:28:05 PM PDT by american colleen
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To: EODGUY
It's not a total disaster. They can still use it to house the space shuttle.
45 posted on 09/03/2002 6:15:51 PM PDT by ultima ratio
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To: Sock
Why they are barfoot I can not answer, but the picture looks to me like they are incensing the altar. This is often done at Easter and Christmas. But usually by the priest with altar boys and the MC along with him.
46 posted on 09/03/2002 7:00:50 PM PDT by Salvation
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To: NYer
Take a closer look at that picture.

There are kneelers. Do you see the different color and then a dark line down the pew where the next kneeler starts? It's the space between the kneelers in the two sections.

47 posted on 09/03/2002 7:06:32 PM PDT by Salvation
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To: NYer
You know, I think a future Cardinal Archbishop of Los Angeles could really do something with this monstrosity. First, wall off about 2/3 of it and use the space as a homeless shelter/soup kitchen/orphanage/hospital. Second, de-wreckovate the "worship area" to have an identifiable nave, apse, choir loft, etc. Honestly, it's so big, a future Cardinal with some serious creativity could build a real functional cathedral inside this thing.
48 posted on 09/03/2002 7:09:28 PM PDT by Antoninus
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To: Antoninus
Dear Antoninus,

Okay for the interior.

But what about the outside?

sitetest
49 posted on 09/03/2002 7:14:58 PM PDT by sitetest
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To: NYer
This monstrous building is so cold, stark, and dead. Just like Roger Mahony's faith.
50 posted on 09/03/2002 7:19:52 PM PDT by Palladin
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