Posted on 09/03/2002 12:16:14 PM PDT by Aliska
Miracle Cure: Priest's recovery brings sainthood to Polish nun
By Caryle Murphy/The Washington Post In 1995, the Rev. Ronald P. Pytel, just 48, had resigned himself to an idle life and early death. His heart was so damaged that simply walking made him winded. His complexion was pallid, his weight a gaunt 140 pounds. His quality of life, he recalls one doctor saying, "wasn't worth a plug nickel." But the pastor of Holy Rosary Catholic Church in Baltimore, like many of his parishioners, had long been devoted to Faustina Kowalska, a Polish nun and mystic who died in 1938. At a healing service in October 1995, he and a dozen church members were praying to her for his health when Pytel fell to the floor and, although conscious, couldn't get up for 15 minutes. "I could talk, but I couldn't move a muscle," he recalled. "It was as though I was paralyzed." When he finally stood up, he felt so fit he began laughing. Nowadays, the blond Pytel has the rosy cheeks of a choirboy, weighs a hearty 170 pounds and swims with abandon. His pumping machine is so robust he jokes of having "the heart of a 19-year-old." He and his parishioners call what happened a miracle. And so does the Catholic Church.
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(Excerpt) Read more at detnews.com ...
The Catholic doctrine of intercession and invocation is set forth by the Council of Trent, which teaches that the saints who reign together with Christ offer up their own prayers to God for men. It is good and useful suppliantly to invoke them, and to have recourse to their prayers, aid, and help for obtaining benefits from God, through His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, Who alone is our Redeemer and Saviour. Those persons think impiously who deny that the Saints, who enjoy eternal happiness in heaven, are to be invoked; or who assert either that they do not pray for men, or that the invocation of them to pray for each of us is idolatry, or that it is repugnant to the word of God, and is opposed to the honour of the one Mediator of God and men, Jesus Christ (Sess. XXV).
This had already been explained by St. Thomas:
Prayer is offered to a person in two ways: one as though to be granted by himself, another as to be obtained through him. In the first way we pray to God alone, because all our prayers ought to be directed to obtaining grace and glory which God alone gives, according to those words of the psalm (lxxxiii, 12): 'The Lord will give grace and glory.' But in the second way we pray to the holy angels and to men not that God may learn our petition through them, but that by their prayers and merits our prayers may be efficacious. Wherefore it is said in the Apocalypse (viii, 4): 'And the smoke of the incense of the prayers of the saints ascended up before God from the hand of the angel' (Summ. Theol., II-II, Q. lxxxiii, a. 4).
The reasonableness of the Catholic teaching and practice cannot be better stated than in St. Jerome's words:
If the Apostles and Martyrs, while still in the body, can pray for others, at a time when they must still be anxious for themselves, how much more after their crowns, victories, and triumphs are won! One man, Moses, obtains from God pardon for six hundred thousand men in arms; and Stephen, the imitator of the Lord, and the first martyr in Christ, begs forgiveness for his persecutors; and shall their power be less after having begun to be with Christ? The Apostle Paul declares that two hundred three score and sixteen souls, sailing with him, were freely given him; and, after he is dissolved and has begun to be with Christ, shall he close his lips, and not be able to utter a word in behalf of those who throughout the whole world believed at his preaching of the Gospel? And shall the living dog Vigilantius be better than that dead lion? ("Contra Vigilant.", n. 6, in P. L., XXIII, 344).
The chief objections raised against the intercession and invocation of the saints are that these doctrines are opposed to the faith and trust which we should have in God alone; that they are a denial of the all-sufficient merits of Christ; and that they cannot be proved from Scripture and the Fathers. Thus Article 22 of the Anglican Church says: "The Romish doctrine concerning the Invocation of Saints is a fond thing vainly invented, and grounded upon no warranty of Scripture, but rather repugnant to the Word of God."
(1) In the article ADORATION it has been clearly shown that the honour paid to angels and saints is entirely different from the supreme honour due to God alone, and is indeed paid to them only as His servants and friends. "By honouring the Saints who have slept in the Lord, by invoking their intercession and venerating their relics and ashes, so far is the glory of God from being diminished that it is very much increased, in proportion as the hope of men is thus more excited and confirmed, and they are encouraged to the imitation of the Saints" (Cat. of the Council of Trent, pt. III, c. ii, q. 11).
We can, of course, address our prayers directly to God, and He can hear us without the intervention of any creature. But this does not prevent us from asking the help of our fellow-creatures who may be more pleasing to Him than we are. It is not because our faith and trust in Him are weak, nor because His goodness and mercy to us are less; rather is it because we are encouraged by His precepts to approach Him at times through His servants, as we shall presently see. As pointed out by St. Thomas, we invoke the angels and saints in quite different language from that addressed to God. We ask Him to have mercy upon us and Himself to grant us whatever we require; whereas we ask the saints to pray for us, i.e. to join their petitions with ours. However, we should here bear in mind Bellarmine's remarks: "When we say that nothing should be asked of the saints but their prayer for us, the question is not about the words, but the sense of the words. For as far as the words go, it is lawful to say: 'St. Peter, pity me, save me, open for me the gate of heaven'; also, 'Give me health of body, patience, fortitude', etc., provided that we mean 'save and pity me by praying for me'; 'grant me this or that by thy prayers and merits.' For so speaks Gregory of Nazianzus (Orat. xviii — according to others, xxiv — " De S. Cypriano" in P. G., XXXV, 1193; "Orat. de S. Athan.: In Laud. S. Athanas.", Orat. xxi, in P. G., XXXV, 1128); in "De Sanct. Beatif.", I, 17.
The supreme act of impetration, sacrifice, is never offered to any creature. "Although the Church has been accustomed at times to celebrate certain Masses in honour and memory of the Saints, it does not follow that she teaches that sacrifice is offered unto them, but unto God alone, who crowned them; whence neither is the priest wont to say 'I offer sacrifice to thee, Peter, or Paul', but, giving thanks to God for their victories, he implores their patronage, that they may vouchsafe to intercede for us in heaven, whose memory we celebrate upon earth" (Council of Trent, Sess. XXII, c. iii).
The Collyridians, or Philomarianites, offered little cakes in sacrifice to the Mother of God; but the practice was condemned by St. Epiphanius (Hær., lxxix, in P. G., XLI, 740); Leontius Byzant., "Contra Nest. et Eutych.", III, 6, in P. G., LXXXVI, 1364; and St. John of Damascus (Hær., lxxix, in P. G., XCIV, 728).
(2) The doctrine of one Mediator, Christ, in no way excludes the invocation and intercession of saints. All merit indeed comes through Him; but this does not make it unlawful to ask our fellow-creatures, whether here on earth or already in heaven, to help us by their prayers. The same Apostle who insists so strongly on the sole mediatorship of Christ, earnestly begs the prayers of his brethren: "I beseech you, therefore, brethren, through our Lord Jesus Christ, and by the charity of the Holy Ghost, that you help me in your prayers for me to God" (Rom., xv, 30); and he himself prays for them: "I give thanks to my God in every remembrance of you, always in all my prayers making supplication for you all" (Phil., i, 3, 4). If the prayers of the brethren on earth do not derogate from the glory and dignity of the Mediator, Christ, neither do the prayers of the saints in heaven.
(3) As regards the proof from Holy Scripture and the Fathers, we can show that the principle and the practice of invoking the aid of our fellow-creatures are clearly laid down in both. That the angels have an interest in the welfare of men is clear from Christ's words: "There shall be joy before the angels of God upon one sinner doing penance" (Luke, xv, 10). In verse 7 He says simply: "There shall be joy in heaven". Cf. Matt., xviii, 10; Heb., i, 14. That the angels pray for men is plain from the vision of the Prophet Zacharias: "And the angel of the Lord answered, and said: O Lord of hosts, how long wilt thou not have mercy on Jerusalem . . . and the Lord answered the angel . . . good words, comfortable words" (Zach., i, 12, 13). And the angel Raphael says: " When thou didst pray with tears . . . I offered thy prayer to the Lord" (Tob., xii, 12) The combination of the prayers both of angels and saints is seen in the vision of St. John: "And another angel came, and stood before the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given to him much incense, that he should offer of the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar, which is before the throne of God. And the smoke of the incense of the prayers of the saints ascended up before God from the hand of the angel" (Apoc., viii, 3, 4). God Himself commanded Abimelech to have recourse to Abraham's intercession: "He shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live. . . . And when Abraham prayed, God healed Abimelech" (Gen., xx, 7,
17). So, too, in the case of Job's friends He said: "Go to my servant Job, and offer for yourselves a holocaust; and my servant Job shall pray for you: his face I will accept" (Job, xlii, 8). Intercession is indeed prominent in several passages in this same Book of Job: "Call now if there be any that will answer thee, and turn to some of the saints' (v, 1);" If there shall be an angel speaking for him . . . He shall have mercy on him, and shall say: Deliver him, that he may not go down to corruption" (xxxiii, 23). "They [the angels] appear as intercessors for men with God, bringing men's needs before Him, mediating in their behalf. This work is easily connected with their general office of labouring for the good of men" (Dillman on Job, p. 44). Moses is constantly spoken of as "mediator': "I was the mediator and stood between the Lord and you" (Deut., v, 5; cf. Gal., iii, 19, 20). It is true that in none of the passages of the Old Testament mention is made of prayer to the saints, i. e; holy men already departed from this life; but this is in keeping with the imperfect knowledge of the state of the dead, who were still in Limbo. The general principle of intercession and invocation of fellow-creatures is, however, stated in terms which admit of no denial; and this principle would in due course be applied to the saints as soon as their position was defined. In the New Testament the number of the saints already departed would be comparatively small in the early days.
To all of this I add that from the early centuries of the Church litanies of the saints--the martyrs and confessors, have been recited, and after the saint is named, the response is invariable: Ora pro nobis --pray for us. For our belief is that death does not break our communion--our solidarity-- with the dead.
I like that JMJ333 even when one is direct some are still WALKING IN THE DARK IN THE NOONDAY SUN:)
OR
They who are not chosen have sinned a very grievous sin, in that they are walking in darkness at noon-day.
Good night, rest. ;)
Luke 11
2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.
You pray to the Father in the Name of Jesus Christ.
Just for fun, let's consider the Protestant Hermeneutic:
Now, I suppose that one could allege that Scripture does not interpret Scripture. But such an allegation would contradict the teaching of 2 Timothy 3: 16-17:
On the basis of 2 Timothy 3:16-17, then, let's entertain for discussion the Protestant contention that Scripture is essentially perspicuous:
Now, if Scripture is perspicuous, then the Delineation of Doctrine expressed in the Church Creeds is not so much a matter of the development of Doctrine (to use the common Roman expression), as it is the synthesis of Doctrine, already-existing and entirely present in the Scriptures themselves.
For example, if we wanted to promulgate a doctrinal Creed to the following effect:
In order to promulgate this Creed, we should find it necessary to test its Creedal Declarations against all relevant passages of Scripture, to determine whether or not such a Creed faithfully expressed perfect adherence to all relevant Scriptures, and without contradiction of any relevant Scripture.
So, now, let us Test this proposed Creed as to its perfect adherence to and non-contradiction with all relevant passages of Scripture.
The proposed Creed in question may be adjudged as Sound, for it perfectly adheres to all relevant passages of Scripture, and contradicts no relevant passage of Scripture whatsoever.
But is this Creed (which is found nowhere in Scripture in this format) somehow a "development" of Doctrine, as per the common Romanist claim for the alleged "authority" of their Church?? No, we have not "developed" a blessed thing.
Every single Creedal Declaration encompassed herein is already contained in Scripture, entirely perspicuous in every word; we have simply synthesized together the already-existent declarations of Scripture into a unitary, Creedal format. Contra the Roman view of "interpretation", no "development" of Doctrine has occurred at all; only a synthesis of already-existent Scripture into a unitary format.
The reason why the Mormon Creeds (and also the distinctly Romanistic Creeds) are to be rejected by Biblical Christians, is this simple test of Scriptural perspicuity, adherence, and non-contradiction.
The relevant question, however, is will any Unregenerate Men ever Repent and Believe and Confess absent the prior Regeneration of their Spirits?
The Biblical Doctrine of Man is quite clear on the matter:
The Natural Man is evil and spiritually insane in his heart (Ecc 9) and can never perform the good (Jeremiah 13) and only chooses unrighteous choices (Isa 64) and will never come to the Light (John 3) and cannot receive the Spirit (John 14) and never actions righteous choices (Rom 3) and always and without exception wills Evil (Rom 7) and never selects the God-pleasing Choice (Rom 8) and cannot even understand the Gospel (1 Cor 2) and cannot confess Jesus as Lord (1 Cor 12).
Given, then, that this is the state of the unregenerate Man's heart according to every single passage concerning the Biblical Doctrine of Man, his heart must be unilaterally re-engineered by God in order to Repent.
Fortunately, God directs the hearts of Men in whatever direction He wants to turn them. (Proverbs 21:1)
The Reformation Protestant Creeds, are, therefore, to be preferred to the Roman Creeds on such subjects, in that they represent a non-contradictory holistic synthesis of the relevant Scriptural passages on the subject, rather than an UnScriptural "development" of Doctrine which the Roman Church has no Ecclesial Right to "develop".
If I can't say such a thing about you, then you can't say it about me. And yet you did say it.
Think about that.
What this means is that you are judgmental for insinuating that I am judgmental. Gosh, JMJ333, I am just offering you a sincere and, I believe, important appraisal based on the Scriptures themselves. You really do seem to lack the necessary experience of conversion under God's Word.
I know a lot of ex-RCs who would tell you the same thing.
For the sake of the argument, maybe I am completely wrong. But then again, maybe I'm not. Maybe you completely lack salvation. If that is the case, am I being mean-spirited for telling you what is wrong?
How is this "digging a hole deeper"? I would argue that your choice of language (and your choice of doctrine) is fatally at fault here.
You are using the term "intercessory" as though it implies some sort of mediatorial entreaty by the Dead... even a mediatorial entreaty by the Justified Saints in Heaven (God forbid!! I must allege that Our Saints are grieved by this Roman Abomination, Sock).
Such an interpretation is expressly forbidden to the Church:
Here's an "Amillenial Protestant" HINT for ya, Sock -- Revelations is by far the most "Old Testamental" Book in the New Covenant Scripture, rivalled only by the Johannine Gospel (also written by John) for its hundreds of direct and specific Old Testament References. Revelation is the most "Biblical" Book in the New Testament, bearing in mind that the Palestinian Canon of the Old Covenant Scriptures were the "Bible" which the Author was referencing.
If you do not reference the Old Testament every single time you read a single passage of Revelation, you will always, always, always get your understanding DEAD WRONG. "And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the Book, and to loose the seven seals thereof."
As concerns the specific passages under our consideration (Revelation 5:8, Revelation 8:3-4), realize that both these passages are a direct, specific, and umambiguous reference to Exodus chapter 30, verses 6 through 10:
Now, what should this tell you, Sock?
Aaron had One Role and he had one role only -- he carried the Confession of Sins and the Prayer for Salvation unto the Lord through the Vail of the Ark (and as per Paul's epistle to the Hebrews, we have now a better High Priest than Aaron, it must needs be said) unto the Lord of Hosts for the forgiveness of Sins.
Aaron neither knew nor received nor mediated the Prayers of the Saints; he merely carried them unto the Lord (as is equally seen in the collaborative references of Revelations 5 and 8). The Bringing of the Incense was an offeratory sacrifice given unto Him WHO ALONE knows the secret heart of Man:
How, then, would you dare to make our Beloved Saints a party to such an Anti-Biblical Usurpation, as to assign to them a role of mediatorial entreaty which Aaron himself would in no wise have claimed?
AN EVERLASTING CURSE ON SUCH A BLASPHEMY!!
Such a blasphemy is to Attribute to mere Men that which belongs to God Alone: to omnisciently see and perfectly reward that which is Prayed in secret. God Forbid that we should exalt the Creature such as this.
No, the Economy of Heaven mirrors the Economy of Israel in this: even as Aaron neither knew nor received nor mediated the Prayers of the Saints, so neither do the Saints on High. Like Aaron they have carried the Confession of Sins and the Prayer for Salvation unto the Lord... they want no part of Unseemly Divination (in which, not being Omniscient, they have not the Power to partake anyway).
You say that we Protestants do not venerate the Saints??
I say that we Protestants venerate the Saints more highly than any Roman.
We Protestants do indeed venerate the martyred Saints... but we do not seek to make them a party to any abominable divination, or strange incense, of which Our Blessed Saints want no thrice-damned part.
We have had one or two exchanges before and I’ve come to respect you for the respect you show to our faith. It’s plain old common sense, but some people just don’t get it.
Quite frankly, I am here on the “Religion forum” because I want to be with my fellow Catholics. Still, if you have any questions or desire to discuss a matter of theology, I would be happy to dialogue with you another time on another thread. The a$$holes have landed on this thread in force and dealing with their bigotry is an illogical exercise in futility.
Peace
I am not going to list them again either because I asked the same questions at least 20 times last night and never once got an answer. And woody, don't pretend like you have no idea what I am talking about.
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