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To: Catholicguy; Quester
"Heaven, the Pope said, is neither abstraction nor a physical place"

CG do you think the Pope really denied a spatial component to heaven and hell, or has he just been misquoted?

Bearing in mind that the resurrection of the body is an article of faith, and that bodies need space or "a place" in which to exist, then I cannot believe that JPII really said this.
5 posted on 09/23/2002 2:01:07 PM PDT by Tantumergo
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To: Tantumergo
"Bearing in mind that the resurrection of the body is an article of faith, and that bodies need space or "a place" in which to exist, then I cannot believe that JPII really said this."

We won't get our glorified bodies until the general judgement. It think the pope is talking about where we go after the individual judgement.

8 posted on 09/23/2002 5:34:36 PM PDT by Theresa
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To: Tantumergo
CG do you think the Pope really denied a spatial component to heaven and hell, or has he just been misquoted?

Do glorified bodies need physical space, or do they exist metaphysically?

God is pure love, and it takes a lifelong series of conscious decisions against God to consign one to an eternity without Him.

More men will spend intensive periods in purgatory than will go to hell.

If there are people in hell, they will have made a firm decision to go there.

12 posted on 09/23/2002 7:05:10 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: Tantumergo
<>I have no idea of what he actually said. I place the same amount of trust in the press as I placed in Clinton under oath.

Are you suggesting the Pope is heretical?<>

35 posted on 09/24/2002 5:06:00 AM PDT by Catholicguy
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To: Tantumergo; Catholicguy
Interesting discussion. Since the truth about hell and heaven is contained in the Apostle's Creed, I just checked out references.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church

ARTICLE 5 - "HE DESCENDED INTO HELL. ON THE THIRD DAY HE ROSE AGAIN"

631 Jesus "descended into the lower parts of the earth. He who descended is he who also ascended far above all the heavens."[475] The Apostles' Creed confesses in the same article Christ's descent into hell and his Resurrection from the dead on the third day, because in his Passover it was precisely out of the depths of death that he made life spring forth:
Christ, that Morning Star, who came back from the dead, and shed his peaceful light on all mankind, your Son who lives and reigns for ever and ever. Amen.[476]

Paragraph I. Christ Descended into Hell

632 The frequent New Testament affirmations that Jesus was "raised from the dead" presuppose that the crucified one sojourned in the realm of the dead prior to his resurrection.[477] This was the first meaning given in the apostolic preaching to Christ's descent into hell: that Jesus, like all men, experienced death and in his soul joined the others in the realm of the dead. But he descended there as Saviour, proclaiming the Good News to the spirits imprisoned there.[478]

633 Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, "hell" - Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God.[479] Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into "Abraham's bosom":[480] "It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Saviour in Abraham's bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell."[481] Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.[482]

634 "The gospel was preached even to the dead."[483] The descent into hell brings the Gospel message of salvation to complete fulfilment. This is the last phase of Jesus' messianic mission, a phase which is condensed in time but vast in its real significance: the spread of Christ's redemptive work to all men of all times and all places, for all who are saved have been made sharers in the redemption.

635 Christ went down into the depths of death so that "the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live."[484] Jesus, "the Author of life", by dying destroyed "him who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and [delivered] all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong bondage."[485] Henceforth the risen Christ holds "the keys of Death and Hades", so that "at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth."[486]
Today a great silence reigns on earth, a great silence and a great stillness. A great silence because the King is asleep. The earth trembled and is still because God has fallen asleep in the flesh and he has raised up all who have slept ever since the world began. . . He has gone to search for Adam, our first father, as for a lost sheep. Greatly desiring to visit those who live in darkness and in the shadow of death, he has gone to free from sorrow Adam in his bonds and Eve, captive with him - He who is both their God and the son of Eve. . . "I am your God, who for your sake have become your son. . . I order you, O sleeper, to awake. I did not create you to be a prisoner in hell. Rise from the dead, for I am the life of the dead."[487]

IN BRIEF

636 By the expression "He descended into hell", the Apostles' Creed confesses that Jesus did really die and through his death for us conquered death and the devil "who has the power of death" (Heb 2:14).

637 In his human soul united to his divine person, the dead Christ went down to the realm of the dead. He opened heaven's gates for the just who had gone before him.

58 posted on 09/24/2002 9:18:12 AM PDT by Salvation
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