The Twenty Mysteries of the Rosary?

Let's say we lived in a city -- let's call it "New Jerusalem." It's a beautiful city which has been built up over 2000 years. We love our city and are devoted to it to the point that we would sacrifice our lives for it.

But at this particular point of history, the city is besieged on all sides. It has suffered other sieges over the course of its long history, but this is perhaps the most dangerous situation yet.

<> Which generation hasn't said that?<>

Enemies attack it relentlessly from without.

<> Nothing new under the sun<>

Even worse, it is known that there are numerous traitors who are undermining it from within.

<> There have always been both wheat and tares<>

The city has suffered devastating casualties with the loss of tens of thousands of officers and millions of citizens.

<> Desertion is never defensible<>

Do we serve our city by ignoring the problems?

<> They aren't being ignored just because one doesn't throw down the spiritual arms of prayer and obedience and join the deseretion.<>

Is it true loyalty to pretend that nothing is wrong?

<> No faithful Catholic in Frepperville is ignorant nor do they pretend nothing is wrong. Conversely, no faithful Catholic willl fail to acknowledge the good they see about them<>

Will we save our city from destruction by happy talk divorced from reality?

<> We will not "save" the city. That is not in our control and thinking it is in our control to save is the first step to wrong actions. General Lefebvre was a traitor, not a hero. There is no statute of him in the New Jerusalem<>

Let's say that the citizens of the city believe that God has promised that the city will never be entirely destroyed.

<> Tautology<>

Do we fail for that reason to combat the enemies, both external and internal.

<> Defeat first the enemy within ourselves<>

Do we have any less obligation to fight to the death?

<> Spiritual physician, heal thyself<>

Or is God's promise perhaps contingent on OUR faithfulness?

<> Faithfulness and obedience and maintaining the Bonds of Unity, Worship and Authority are a fulltime job for the Church militant. That, and turning a deaf ear to the recruitment campaigns of the traitor Generals<>

The citizens of "New Jerusalem" may delight in their city, but they are called to be "militant," and they fail in their duty if they shirk the necessary tasks when times are at their bleakest.

<> Pray, Pay, Obey...and don't act above your paygrade<>

Please don't preach the Gospel according to Oprah Winfrey to me or the Princess Diana Sermon on the Mount. I am well aware of the need for corporal works of mercy, to feed the hungry and clothe the naked and reach out a helping hand. That is not the argument. Social concern for others is not the whole of Catholicism. If it were, we need only all become Democrats to achieve salvation by pushing more and more social welfare programs. But we are also called to personal sanctity and to worship God--and this where our beliefs fit in and our respect for Catholic tradition. What is being preached nowadays is not the Catholic faith. It is a hybid thing, a watered-down belief system that corresponds to ordinary humanistic concern for our fellow man, but not to what has been transmitted from apostolic times, particularly by means of the ancient Latin Mass. But if all the faith means to you is having a social regard for others, then it is no wonder you support the new religion.

Fascinating. As luck would have it, just a few days before His Holiness released this Apostolic Letter, our newly ordained priest gave me a copy of de Montford's, The Secret of the Rosary.

Initially, I was excited about the introduction of five, new mysteries. Then, as I began reading de Montford, I, too, became disturbed about the change from the traditional 150, which corresponds so nicely to the Psalms, to 200, also. I even joked with our other priest that now de Montford would have to go back and revise his book. (Yes, I know he is long gone from this world.)

And that got me to thinking. As others in this thread have pointed out, the addition of this five, new mysteries does, in a way, devalue much beautiful devotional literature like de Montford's.

I'm kind of relieved to see this article since I thought I was the only one disturbed by this. Let me see if I can offer an analogy.

Recently, the church in which my wife and I were married was renovated. Now, to be fair, the new part is NOT one of these theatre-in-the-round garage monstrosities which so blemish many 'renovated' Catholic Churches. Indeed, its quite beautiful in and of itself.

However, its just sort of 'stuck on' to the old Church. It doesn't really match the previous architecture. As another priest has commented on it, rather wittily I think, "some parts of the new church are less intolerable than others." Its not that the new church addition isn't beautiful, standing alone it would be great. Its just that rammed on to the old church it looks, well, weird, and this "weirdness" detracts from the beauty of each part.

I'm worried these new mysteries could do the same. And I'm beginning to think His Holiness is approaching much of his dealings with the Church in the same manner. Rather than directly confronting the current 'archeticture of the Church,' he seems to be just trying to make things better by tacking on new things, hoping they'll cover up the actual problems.

Read de Montford's, The Secret of the Rosary. His love and devotion -the tender care he brings to his subject- cannot help but lead one to wonder if maybe tacking on five new mysteries may not be as good an idea as it initially sounds.

Also, allow me to note I, too, am disturbed by His Holiness' suggestion concerning the Fatima prayer. I realize he doesn't come right out and say, "drop it." Indeed, he commends it but then suggests substituting some other sort of reflection. The language is, at the least, ambiguous.

Now, here's my problem. Its not hard for me to imagine some in my parish latching on to this as an excuse to drop the Fatima prayer when we say the Rosary. Consider: a number of people in our parish, when saying the last sentence of the Hail Mary, already say, "pray for OUR sinners, now and at the hour of our death."(BTW, has anyone else ever heard of this?)

It seems obvious to me these individuals have a problem saying 'US sinners.' Maybe they don't like to feel bad about themselves. The point is, I have no doubt they would just love to do away with the whole, "Oh my Jesus, save US from the fires of Hell and lead all souls to heaven, especially those who have most need of thy mercy," business. I fear His Holiness has just given them the ammunition to do this.

<> I have that book. And I agree with the Pope. Both St. Louis and the Pope are correct and I'd be willing to bet St. Louis would be the first to tell you the Pope is correct<>

If the Blessed Mother had thought that there was a "huge gaping hole" in her Rosary, you'd think she would have mentioned it to St Dominic or the children of Fatima or somebody!

Well Said. I also think the new Stations of the Cross is ridiculous.

A great post! I second that motion.

I"m going to break one of my hard and fast rules and actually directly respond...

Change is fine if it is evolution, not revolution.

EVERY evolutionary change begins with some sort of revolt.

The change in the rosary is significant only because it is still another break with tradition.

As the Rosary evolved before now, there were breaks with tradition. All religious/social/political evolution requires breaks with tradition. This is just more of the same.

This is a papacy, remember, that has rejected the Church's own past in favor of every conceivable novelty.

I think you attack because you had high hopes and they were dashed. No, there's been much more return to tradition than not, much to many people's dismay, at least in MY circles. It's just been very quiet and slow, which usually ensures more success than loud, flashy and public.

The result has been apostasies at the highest levels and systemic corruption.

The corruption existed long before this pope ever took office - and will exist long after him. It's the nature of power, whether we like it or not. None of us has any control over it, either. And rooting it out, is never easy, in fact, it's usually downright impossible. These people are only human.

Thank you, dearie, for a great post.

It's instructive how you both complain about what traditionalists have done to your Catholic website. If you are so upset by such a trivial intrusion as myself--how must you suppose traditionalist Catholics feel as they have been forced to watch their beloved Church systematically dismantled, the Mass of the Ages banished, the great religious orders destroyed by unspeakable corruptions?

Consider: a number of people in our parish, when saying the last sentence of the Hail Mary, already say, "pray for OUR sinners, now and at the hour of our death."(BTW, has anyone else ever heard of this?)

NO. And it does drive me nuts when people drop the word "men" from the Creed, too. It changes the meaning of the sentence.

I'm not complaining. I would think you'll notice that while you've tried to convince me to go away a couple times, I just tell you to get used to my responses to you.

I like having you around.

Stop the pretension that "we don't get your message." We get you message alright. We absolutely reject your analysis and your conclusions as we should.

You take some valid complaints (moving or hiding of tabernacles, removal of communion rails, communion in the hand, substitution of Kumbaya musical pablum or worse for chant and polyphony, pink palace seminaries subsidized and encouraged by lavender bishops and enablers, and add to those a group of hysterical and unfactual claims such as "our theologies have been scrapped", "there is not a single sacrament that has not been overhauled," "our Catholic literature has been scrapped" (really? There are numerous Catholic publishing houses in America such as TAN right here in Rockford which seem to have little problem printing or selling reprints of hard-core Catholic classics), and add to those your complete fantasies as to the notion that soon enough nothing will remain of the original rosary, the Mass has been Protestantized (do we know of any actual Protestant faith that believes that it makes the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross immanent upon the altar as does the rubric of both the Tridentine and the Novus Ordo?).

The piece de resistance is the total lapel-grabbing style (Don't you realize, man, unless you agree with UR that JPII is a heretic and a stooge and a marionette of the international Protestant conspiracy, the international Islamic conspiracy and the international pagan animist conspiracy and maybe even a closet Hebrew (?) since he sends not armies to convert them at the point of a sword, all rolled into one, you are going straight to hell?) Your style seems much closer to that of the interminably self-righteous preachiness of many but thankfully not all of our separated brethren of the deformation variety and of the subtype who take it as their mission to save Catholics from the Scarlet Beast or whatever.

In addition to taking your meds more regularly, I offer the unsolicited advice that you ought to realize that one CAN TOO be both Catholic and socially normal, all at once. Really!

The parish (actually the oratory) to which I and my family belong has only Tridentine Masses (I often attend Novus Ordo elsewhere to remain in touch with the more dominant strain of the Church) and sacraments only according to the Tridentine rite, and communion received only on the tongue, only on the knees and (save for extreme age or handicap) only at the altar rail, only orthodox sermons, with all of our kneelers quite intact, thank you very much, with chant and polyphony and nary a rendition of Kumbaya songs, any of them, TAN has book tables in the basement for the parishioners to purchase all manner of orthodox books as well as Tridentine missals, mantillas which are expected attire for the girls and ladies, rosaries, etc. Neither our pastor nor our saintly Bishop Thomas Doran are describable as apostates. Neither the Koran nor the Togo forest appear in our Oratory. Our parishioners are mostly calm, cool and collected p[eople who feel no desperate desire for personal attention. They live Catholic lives and raise Catholic families without all the hysteria exhibited in other quarters. If you cannot find such a facility near you, you are welcome here if you can restrain yourself from the pope-bashing which is NOT welcome here. If Rockford is not your cup of tea, there are many other "faith communities" like it in many parts of the country and the number increases regularly.

You might consider a different tack: kwitcherbellyachin' and take advantage of the opportunities which have grown under the pope you love to deride. Put your life where your mouth or keyboard is. Personally, I don't care if JPII does an Irish Jig in Outer Mongolia as the centerpiece of a hootenanny or folk music concert with a balloon festival and dancing bears and jugglers nearby. I trust his judgment. You should too.

As you ought to realize, it is very, very lonely out there without a pope and trying, Protestant-style to run a do-it-yourself magisterium.

<> sanity. unity<>

<> sandy, one of the most scandalous acts a "traditionalist" is forced to endure is witnessing a faithful Catholic enjoying themselves. You appear to be a normal Catholic in union with your Bishop and Rome and you enjoy yourself. You are considered a dupe and the "traditionalists" flatter themsleves they are the Church militant-without-whom-we-would-perish-and-why-in-the-hell-don't-we-not-only-recognise-that-fact-but-praise-them-for-their-loyalty?

Look, for some "traditionalists, unless you are in a feverish state of finger-pointing and denouncing, you are a dupe of the devil. These sorts of sites,Seattle Catholic, Diocese Report etc,are not about confirming one's Faith. They are about the businesss of hysteria, overreaction, hyperbole, chicken-littling etc. They really do appear to think if they don't "act" all is lost. Such Faith:)

Black Elk described his Parish. I go to a Pauline Rite Parish with a great solid, orthodox, Priest whose sermons are superior to any I ever heard at an Indult Mass. There are PLENTY of young couples with many children who sit quietly and attentively at Mass. We have many Blacks, Hispanics and others at our Masses. We have several Jewish converts at out Masses. I attend my Pastor's Bible Study - I will be there tonight studying Galatians. I have never met a SINGLE "traditionalist" who knew one-half as much as he does about the Bible

Starting in December, I will be going nightly to one of his retreats focused on how to live in closer union with Jesus. My Bishop is smashing, Bishop Sean Patrick O'Malley. There is a LOT of good news out there. A corner has been turned but so-called trads won't admit it. They feel too important in their role of "warrior" assuring the Churhc of its salvation. If normalcy reigns, who would pay attention to these self-annointed "saviours" anymore?

Sandyeggo, you are a great witness here. Sane, normal, happy. We need 999 more Million just like you. God Bless you<>

Do we know of any actual Protestant faith that believes that it makes the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross immanent upon the altar as does the rubric of both the Tridentine and the Novus Ordo?

High Church Anglicanism believes in that same sacrifice while trying to reconcile the Mass with Reformed theology. It is invalid, but they believe it all the same.

Many Anglo-Catholic churches in England also celebrate the Novus Ordo, omitting only references to the Pope in the eucharistic prayers.

The problem with the Church is not one of Protestantization per se. The problem appears to be that most dioceses are trying to recreate the Anglican experiment of reconciling fundamentally inconsistent theologies within one Church.

Dear BlackElk,

"If you cannot find such a facility near you,..."

Sadly, according to his own words, ultima used to belong to a parish that celebrated the indult Mass. Because the Holy Father made prudential and disciplinary decisions with which ultima disagreed, he left the parish, and the Catholic Church, to join with the schismatics.

To me, that's a very sad thing.

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