I Think God Exists Because....

onedoug ^ | 9 DEC 2002 | onedoug

[onedoug]

...First because existence organizes. Nothing tends inertially "toward" disorganization. Even chaos at the quantum level must sum to coherent states for anything to exist. Even illusion. As with Einstein's famous dictum: "The incomprehensible thing about the universe is that it's comprehensible."

This organizational tendency of the "known" universe extends to the human mind, which - being in, and as much a part of the universe as anything else - derives "meaning" from "information" that it abstracts from its environment: "Let us make man in our image...." as if Genesis were a pact?

Organization and its antithesis. Good and evil.

That the laws of phyisics are "statistical" in nature. Hence: number. Invention, or discovery?

Nothing new, really. But for the directions I believe God has..."prompted" me, in my own life....

God, the choices I could've made, which would have precluded the happiness...which I wouldn't trade!

[onedoug]

I might wax more theologically, hopefully without the cheese. But I'm genuinely interested how others might see this.

Thanks for whatever indulgence.

[gcruse]

I think God exists because all those illiterate, superstitious, desert nomads who lived thousands of years ago couldn't possibly have been wrong in assessing invisible kingdoms.

[B-Chan]

1. In every case, when we observe a work of art, an artist external to and separate from the work of art exists.

2. The Universe is a work of art.

3. Therefore, an Artist external to and separate from the Universe exists.

'This all men call God."

[xm177e2]

Organization and its antithesis. Good and evil.

Then you must like John Ascroft and the P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act and gun control. And government bureaucracies. Gotta love those. They have so much paperwork, and keep everything so organized.

[xm177e2]

Bull----. The universe is not a "work of art" any more than a Chevy or a waterfall can be a "work of art." The Grand Canyon for example was not carved out by God or Paul Bunyan, it was created over millions of years by erosion from a river. Likewise, you don't know how the universe got here or why, but automatically assume a sentient entity was behind it.

[onedoug]

Works...computational systems...are designed and built.

[onedoug]

One God. One morality. Decency toward others. Deed over creed.

[onedoug]

Nothing new, really. But for the directions I believe God has..."prompted" me, in my own life....
God, the choices I could've made, which would have precluded the happiness...which I wouldn't trade!

Precisely.

[nickcarraway]

...How else can you explain infinity?

[xm177e2]

How else can you explain [insert pretty much anything here, especially abstract concepts]?

How else? I can explain infinity this way: 1) think of any number 2) Add 1 to that 3) Repeat (2) until you get to infinity.

[xm177e2]

Not all systems are designed. Sometimes they come about naturally. "Order without design" exists naturally, and it proves your argument wrong (it's often used as an argument against creationism)

[Frumanchu]

I think God exists because all those illiterate, superstitious, desert nomads who lived thousands of years ago couldn't possibly have predicted the future down to precise details.

Here's an experiment for you: For simplicity's sake we'll just do this over the span of, say 20 years, so that you can see the product. Every two years or so, pick one random member of a tribe in a third world country. Tell him to make up a short story explaining the origins of man and the universe. After he's done writing, take that story and pass it on to another random tribe member two years later. Continue this for the full 20 years. Suggest that they make predictions of events that have not yet happened. At the end of the twenty years, collect the stories together into a book. Submit the book for, say 10 years of critical review by a wide range of people of various vocations. Let me know if a single one finds any inconsistency whatsoever, especially in predictions.

You're right...any idea of diety, especially one that would stoop so low as to interact with His creation, is ludicrous. I like your explanation much better :)

[onedoug]

All proceeding from "creation", implicate of creator.

The argument is not "provable", thus its ultimate compulsion to faith. But God seems more likely to me in the circumstance.

[nickcarraway]

1)You never get there!
2)Where does infinity end? How can it end? How can it not end?

[GodsLittleOne]

Then you must like John Ashcroft and the P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act and gun control. And government bureaucracies. Gotta love those. They have so much paperwork, and keep everything so organized.

Christians are supposed to "love thy neighbor." Good or bad. As a Christian, I love John Ashcroft, but that doesn't mean I have to like what he does.

Bull----. The universe is not a "work of art" any more than a Chevy or a waterfall can be a "work of art." The Grand Canyon for example was not carved out by God or Paul Bunyan, it was created over millions of years by erosion from a river. Likewise, you don't know how the universe got here or why, but automatically assume a sentient entity was behind it.

Ah, my friend. You say that the Grand Canyon was formed over millions of years?

Numerous studies have already been conducted in which one might take a portion of the Green River formation, grind it into a fine powder, put it in the water and it will frequently repair and go back into many fine layers, and it doesn't take millions of years to do so. (See http://www.drdino.com/cse.asp?pg=faq&specific=6 .)

With this in mind... My belief (and many other Christian's as well) is this:

The earth was created 6,000 years ago (by God). 4400 years ago The Flood (known as "The Flood of Noah") swooshed and washed and threw around all the rock and mud and soil and sand and animals and people and such ( which we know to be a common result of floods and would also explain why some of the fossils from the "Cretaceous" period/layer might be found in the "Silurian" period/layer) around in this great Flood and because it was so big (after all, it was a world-wide flood as we well know) that when the waters began to recede they formed massive (and I'm sure small as well) sedimentary layers. According to the Bible, the Flood lasted for forty days and forty nights, and the lands dried up not long after that. Now, in those studies conducted earlier (on the Green River Formation), it didn't take long for that Green River section to form layers, did it? So it shouldn't take long for all the layers from the Flood to form either. After all, it's merely the same result of the Green River section "experiment" (or study) on a MUCH wider scale.

Thus, the Grand Canyon is possibly the result of The Flood, NOT millions of years. It could have been formed within minutes, and as the waters began to dry and recede that huge "whoosh" of water that formed the Grand Canyon turned to a trickle, and that "trickle" (though it is larger than a trickle of course) is what we now call the Grand Canyon River.

Not all systems are designed. Sometimes they come about naturally. "Order without design" exists naturally, and it proves your argument wrong (it's often used as an argument against creationism)

...which also proves the point that behind all things there must have been an omnipotent creator. In the article link you gave, Sheldon Richmand says that if you place a book on a table, and then took away the table, the book would fall. Which is very true and only proves my point. There is a "natural" order in things which is put into effect by GOD. However if you take away GOD then there is no book or table.

But you cannot take GOD away; and you cannot defy the laws of gravity.

I rejoice that GOD gives us a choice of whether we would choose to accept Him or not, He will not force you to make a decision. It is yours for the making.

Thank you for your time, take care, and I hope that you soon get to know Christ as your personal saviour. If you would like to contact me on this subject then you can e-mail me or instant message me at GodsLitt1eOne (the lowercase "l" is actually the number "1")

Through Christ,
Kristin.

P.S. Sorry Freepers if this post is really long.

[xm177e2]

1)You never get there!
2)Where does infinity end? How can it end? How can it not end?

And what does any of this have to do with God?

[Commander8]

I KNOW God exists because the Bible says so.

[onedoug]

That's another reason. Thanks. God Bless....