Let's start at the very point which your beliefs begin to diverge from the teachings of the Bible... the Fall of Man, in Genesis.Let's start here. My beliefs don't diverge from Scripture regarding the fall of man.
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Let us look further at this chapter in regards to imputed sin.
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Let's stay with the subject at hand, and my thesis. Paul says no sin is imputed without the law. He also says that without the law he never knew sin. Not that he didn't have a sin nature, or original sin. But until the law told him coveting was a sin, he didn't know.
My application of that is to the subject at hand, do babies who die go to Heaven.
I believe, based on what Paul says in Romans, and what David said in regards to his son, that they do. Sin isn't imputed to them.
Do I believe they are born without sin? No. I do not. No one is.
Now, start there.
Let's start at the very point which your beliefs begin to diverge from the teachings of the Bible... the Fall of Man, in Genesis. ~~ Let's stay with the subject at hand, and my thesis. Paul says no sin is imputed without the law. He also says that without the law he never knew sin. Not that he didn't have a sin nature, or original sin. But until the law told him coveting was a sin, he didn't know. My application of that is to the subject at hand, do babies who die go to Heaven. I believe, based on what Paul says in Romans, and what David said in regards to his son, that they do. Sin isn't imputed to them. Do I believe they are born without sin? No. I do not. No one is. Now, start there.Alright, so, all who are Conceived in Adam, are conceived in Original Sin. Glad that we agree on that.
Now, what is the spiritual effect of this Original Sin, which brought the Fall of Spiritual Death upon the Race of Men?
***Genesis 2:16-17 -- And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
***Genesis 8:21b -- Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood.
***Psalms 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
***Ecclesiastes 9:3 -- This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.
***Isaiah 64: 6 -- For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.
***Romans 3: 10-12, 23 -- As it is written, There is none righteous, not even one; there is none who understands, there is none who seeks for God; all have turned aside, together they have become useless; there is none who does good, there is not even one.... for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
***Romans 7: 18 -- For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.
***Romans 8: 5 - 8 -- For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
***John 14:17 -- Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
***1 Corinthians 2: 14 -- But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
Alright, then, ma'am... when
the Scriptures expressly declare that the Fallen and
unregenerate Natural Man is
spiritually dead to God (Gen 2) and
every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood (Gen 8) and he is
estranged from God from the womb (Ps 58) and he is
spiritually insane (Ecc 9) and
his "righteous" deeds are offensive to God (Is 64) and he
does not seek God (Rom 3) and he
never Wills that which is Good (Rom 7) and he
hates God (Rom 8) and he
never Wills the God-pleasing choice (Rom 8) and he
cannot accept the Spirit (John 14) and he
cannot even understand the things of the Spirit (I Cor 2).
...Then I must respectfully ask, if the Scriptures be your Guide, why ever would you devote yourself to a man-made theology which proposes that a Fallen and unregenerate Man will choose the God-pleasing choice (which is impossible, according to Romans 8) to Repent? As such, your theology directly contradicts Scripture (Romans 8:5-8, and all the other passages listed above).
I'm still waiting on OP to address what the spiritual things are in a previous post.
Well, I'd hate to be amiss in my argumentation. So, let's consider the point:
Do you even know what "the things of the Spirit are"?1 Corinthians 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. Of course an unsaved person is not going to know the things God has prepared for us. That in no way means that an unsaved person will not be drawn by Jesus Christ, repent and believe. Posted by Jael to OrthodoxPresbyterian On Religion 01/01/2003 10:34 AM PST #216 of 318
Ma'am, the issue here is not a question of whether or not Jesus Christ will draw all men unto Himself (for did not even the Pharisees say, in John 12:19, that the "whole world" has gone after Him?)... the issue is, of all men whom Jesus is readily willing to receive into the Atonement of His Sacrifice, who will come??
And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. (John 6:65-66, KJV)
Remember that the Fallen and unregenerate Natural Man is spiritually dead to God (Gen 2) and every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood (Gen 8) and he is estranged from God from the womb (Ps 58) and he is spiritually insane (Ecc 9) and his "righteous" deeds are offensive to God (Is 64) and he does not seek God (Rom 3) and he never Wills that which is Good (Rom 7) and he hates God (Rom 8) and he never Wills the God-pleasing choice (Rom 8) and he cannot accept the Spirit (John 14) and he cannot even understand the things of the Spirit (I Cor 2).
By claiming that a Fallen and unregenerate Man will select the God-pleasing Choice to Repent and Follow Jesus, your man-made theologies directly contradict the express teaching of Romans 8:5-8.
And as long as you claim that a Fallen and unregenerate Man will select the God-pleasing Choice to Repent and Follow Jesus, your man-made theologies are AT WAR AGAINST the Infallible Word of God. (Romans 8:5-8)
Now.... Think about that.