Proxy Baptism

Ensign ^ | 1977 | John A. Tvedtnes

[drstevej]

***2. A main point, often overlooked in order to use this verse to support baptism of the dead, is the tense of the pronouns in the verse. He did not say WE (first person plural), he said THEY (third person plural), thus, he was speaking of the Pagans in the region, not the Christian church.***

Your proposition is that the [FR5th Amendment] supposition ignores the proposition leading people to superstition and ultimately perdition?

[drstevej]

CORRECTION:

Your proposition is that the [FR5th Amendment] supposition ignores the PREPOSITIONS leading people into superstition and ultimately perdition?

[snerkel]

You are correct. Thank you for your prompt correction. :)

[Revelation 911]

Baptism must be done by one having authority.

We believe only we have the authority.

by whos Biblical authority - and what scripture do you cite and why ?

[CCWoody]

Baptism must be done by one having authority. We believe only we have the authority. ~ Illbay

I've seen this [FR5th Amendment] where you [FR5th Amendment]. And then there is the secret [FR5th Amendment] where [FR5th Amendment] was [FR5th Amendment]. But, then that would [FR5th Amendment] [FR5th Amendment] [FR5th Amendment] the Holy Spirit.

I hope that helps you out!

Your friendly neighborhood Cordial Calvinist
Woody.

[computerjunkie]

"So, according to your belief, can anyone outside of the LDS church (a Protestant church, for example) be "called of God" and have the "authority" to do anything with respect to church hierarchy or structure? (i.e., pastor, deacon, elder, Sunday School teacher, etc.) Or do you not recognize ANY church other than LDS to be a scriptural church?"

(Originally posted to the wrong thread. Sorry.)

[computerjunkie]

From THIS thread:

Answer from Illbay: "We do not recognize any other Church to have the authority to administer any of the ordinances, such as baptism.

That is why the Church was organized in the first place: So that it could operate on the authority that had been restored to the earth."

What are the "ordinances" of your church?

[Illbay]

Baptism, the partaking of the sacrament of the Lord's supper, ordination to the priesthood (for males), and temple ordinances including eternal marriage.

[computerjunkie]

And all of these must be performed by someone "having authority"? If so, who has "authority" in your church to perform or administer these ordinances?

[RnMomof7]

We believe only we have the authority.

Which god gave you the authority ?The heavenly father, his son or the disenbodied spirit

[Illbay]

A baptism must be performed by someone having the office of Priest in the Aaronic Priesthood, or having the Melchizedek Priesthood.

We believe the priesthood of Aaron, and of Melchizedek, were restored once again to the earth by John the Baptist, and by Apostles Peter, James and John, who appeared at different times to the prophet, Joseph Smith, and to another man, Oliver Cowdery, in 1830.

I actually have a "Line of Authority" document that traces my authority to administer in these ordinances back to Jesus Christ Himself.

[Corin Stormhands]

I actually have a "Line of Authority" document that traces my authority to administer in these ordinances back to Jesus Christ Himself.

Who did Jesus baptize?

[Illbay]

John 21:25

[computerjunkie]

From another thread you said: "Weddings are civil ceremonies. Any clergyman can perform a wedding. Heck, you can legally perform your OWN ceremony."

You said in #48 that "temple marriages" are an ordinance of the church. What's the difference in a "temple marriage" and a wedding that anyone can perform?

Do you recognize marriages outside of the "temple marriage"?

[Illbay]

A "temple marriage" is for time and for all eternity. We believe that if you are married by the proper authority in the temple, you may, if you continue to live worthily, have your family not just here, but forever.

Yes, we do recognize the validity of marriages outside the temple, but they are no longer of any effect after the death of one of the spouses.

[scripter]

A "temple marriage" is for time and for all eternity. We believe that if you are married by the proper authority in the temple, you may, if you continue to live worthily, have your family not just here, but forever.

How do you square that with Matthew 22:23-30:

That same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question. "Teacher," they said, "Moses told us that if a man dies without having children, his brother must marry the widow and have children for him. Now there were seven brothers among us. The first one married and died, and since he had no children, he left his wife to his brother. The same thing happened to the second and third brother, right on down to the seventh. Finally, the woman died. Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?" Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

[Corin Stormhands]

That verse said Jesus did "other" things. But it does not say that he baptized anyone.

I've done lots of other things. I've never baptized anyone.

[George W. Bush]

More of the usual salvation by works. One can always detect the imitations by these practices. Not to mention the gravely defective anti-trinitarianism.

[Illbay]

Christ was answering them regarding marriage for time only. And when He "they neither marry nor are given in marriage," He meant that they do not marry in the world of spirits, which is also, of course, correct.

That's why we do proxy sealings, as well as baptisms.

[Illbay]

Pardon me, but that's a rather pedantic statement. I do not know whether or not Christ baptized anyone while in mortality, but I also do not know that He didn't.

But I DO know that baptisms are performed by one having authority from, and commissioned by, Christ.