Pope prepares to lift restrictions on Tridentine Mass

Catholic Herald (UK) ^ | 2nd May 2003 | Simon Caldwell

[american colleen]

They won't be. A General Indult would hardly be noticed in the United States of America. There are just not many priests who are chomping at the bit to start celebrating the Tridentine Mass.

Gotta go with ya there, sinkspur. HOWEVER, if this "news" is intertwined with the "news" of a possible recon with the SSPX, this could get veddy interesting.

[american colleen]

I don't know too many Catholics who say: "If I can't see Fr. Bob's handsome face or hear his lame homily jokes or his trite asides, I ain't goin' to Mass!"

Well, ya, but you know we love that warm, fuzzy community feeling that Fr. Bob provides! ;-)

And I'd hate to see Fr. Bob not be able to sit in that way cool Captain Kirk presider chair.

[Loyalist]

Could do what the Oratorians do at St. Vincent de Paul in Toronto: move the table out after one Mass, celebrate on the high altar, then bring the table right back in.

[sinkspur]

At my parish in NJ there is a different priest every other Sunday saying the Tridentine Rite as my pastor's guest - they visit my parish to say it because their ordinary won't give them permission in their own diocese.

How many different priests? A handful?

As I've said in the past, I've got no problem with the Tridentine Mass.

And, I guess it doesn't matter to add another "specialized" liturgy, since we've got Spanish Masses, Tongan Masses, Vietnamese Masses, and Youth Masses.

If there's a critical mass in a particular parish that wants a Tridentine Mass, I suppose the pastor will have to provide one.

What's next? Baptisms in Latin?

I think it more likely that, over time, bishops will establish Tridentine parishes and concentrate those who wish to attend all-things-pre-1962 there.

[sinkspur]

celebrate on the high altar,

In parishes built after 1965, there is no "high altar."

[wideawake]

"A second collection for CHD, Father?"

"Make it so, Usher No. 1!"

[american colleen]

So It Is Written – So It Is Done

[wideawake]

In most, yes.

But I've visited several churches and chapels (and not SSPX chapels, real chapels) built after 1965 that have high altars.

And they're getting more common - not less.

[american colleen]

In parishes built after 1965, there is no "high altar."

I didn't know that. Tragic beyond words.

[nickcarraway]

I wonder if they will eventually allow Tridentine Mass in the vernacular...

[american colleen]

Yikes!

Who's gonna do the translation(s)?

I have a headache!

[nickcarraway]

Despite what you might think from some translations, it shouldn't be too hard. I bet such transaltion already exist, anyway.

[american colleen]

The translation in the 1962 missal, for one.

My preference (if the pope asks me) is for a Tridentine in the vernacular but with the Latin retained for short responses.

I'd like to see a few of those "good news" missalette companies put out to pasture.

[wideawake]

How many different priests? A handful?

Fifteen or twenty, and only because my parish is a convenient one or two hour drive away for them.

There are more, I suspect.

What's next? Baptisms in Latin?

It's funny you should mention that. My newborn daughter was just baptized in the Tridentine Rite this past Sunday.

I think it more likely that, over time, bishops will establish Tridentine parishes and concentrate those who wish to attend all-things-pre-1962 there.

The current model isn't quite like that. My parish has a 9:00 AM Tridentine Mass and vernacular Masses at 10:30 AM and noon. We have traditional devotions (Forty Hours' Adoration, First Friday devotions, novenas, benedictions) as well, and Tridentine Mass on Holy Days of Obligation.

We all live as one happy parish - there is no need to segregate us.

[nickcarraway]

Well, we still use Hebrew words, like hosanna, amen, and hallelujah.

[wideawake]

Another compromise which people have suggested is that Ordinary of the Mass - the Asperges, Confiteor, Kyrie, Credo, Sanctus, Canon, Agnus Dei etc. - should be retained in Latin. These are repeated every Sunday and it isn't asking much for Catholics to know these central prayers (about four pages worth of printed material) by heart.

The readings, occasional prayers and homily (of course) would be in the vernacular.

But I sense the real problem most people have with the Tridentine Rite is not the Latin.

If we were to translate the entire Tridentine Rite into English and retain the same rubrics, the same stretches of quiet stillness, the same solemn tone, the same deference - the usual suspects would be just as upset. By the same token, if the Novus Ordo were celebrated exactly according to the GIRM as the Holy Father recommends, the same objections would follow.

There are a certain number of people who need their worship to be as frenetic, casual and loud as the rest of their free time.

[Conservative til I die]

Another thing to consider is how many priests will want to celebrate the Tridentine? Not saying they won't, but like you said, granting a universaul indult may not mean that all of a sudden we're going back to pre-1962 here.

[Conservative til I die]

Did the Pope celebrate the Tridentine or the Novus Ordo in Latin? I remember reading something about the Latin Novus Ordo recently on FR.

[ultima ratio]

I agree, this has been a very destructive papacy, blind to the idiocies of liberalism.

[wideawake]

The Pope regularly celebrates the Novus Ordo in Latin.