Posted on 06/06/2003 12:25:21 PM PDT by NYer
Pope John Paul (news - web sites) II passes children in the center of Dubrovnik, Friday June 6, 2003. Pope John Paul II, the most traveled pope in history, is paying a five-day visit to Croatia.
He said the mass in Croatian!!! WITHOUT glasses!!! 83 years old!
Happy Birthday, Holy Father
Of course the author doesn't substaniate this.
there is every indication that John Paul is a saint.
Why doesn't the author list these indications.
This article is all about hero-worship.
Here is the crux of the matter. One item here or there wouldn't make the pope a heretic. It's not a question of searching for typos or supposed mis-translations. (BTW, he really did say "hell is a state rather than a place." That's the meaning of the phrase he used. "More than" would be an overly-literal translation.) But what is the legacy of this pope, on balance?
Here is where we see writers like this author demonstrating an incredible amount of the bias of which they accuse others. Any objective analysis is going to compare the Church of 1978 to the Church of today, rather than focus on JPII's rock-star persona which is irrelevant at best, and a scandal at worst.
Objectively looking at the situation today, we see that JPII inherited a Church in crisis -- one that was doing badly and getting worse. Since that time he has 100% stayed the course and refused to make any significant changes in the Vatican II program. All of the vaunted talk of renewal has been just that, talk. There is no reality to it.
Those who think that he is somehow more conservative than his predecessor must have never lived during the pontificate of Paul VI. Paul VI was supposedly Mr. Arch-Conservative during the time that he was alive. It is only in retrospect that he's considered a liberal. For decades he was called the conservative alter-ego to John XXIII's liberal. But now in the hindsight of history, John XXIII may have been more conservative than either Paul VI or JPII.
So on balance we have seen 25 years in which the growing crisis in the Church has deteriorated steadily and there has been no leadership from the Vatican to correct the problems.
A point to remember (and which so-called traditionalists often ignore) is that John Paul may be right and his Predecessors wrong on a particular issue of this kind.
I'm sorry but this is not the way the Church works. I cannot recall a single incident prior to Vatican II in which a pope came out and said, "I'm right and my predecessors were wrong." This is nothing but a prescription for anarchy. Once you admit this principle, then there is no longer any established doctrine in the Church. Each pope would be free to create his own religion.
On April 3, 2000 the Holy See released an annual statistical summary of the world's Catholic population. It shows an increase in the number of Catholics globally, with a slightly higher growth rate than in the overall world population.
There were 17.4 baptized Catholics for every 100 people in the world by the end of 1998. (About 1.04 billion Catholics).
World Catholics by Location:
Nearly 1/2 of the world's Catholics live in the Western Hemisphere
30 % in Latin America
15 % in North America
30 % in Europe
12 % in Africa
Asia, the most populous continent, boasts only 12 % with most of those Catholics in Southeast Asia.
1 % Oceania
Since 1978, Europe has fewer Catholics, Africa and Asia more.
# of Catholic Bishops:
Large Increase 4,439 up from 3,714 in 1978. Greatest increases in Africa.
# of Priests Worldwide:
Declined from 420,971 in 1978 to 404,626 today, especially high in Europe and North America.
# of Religious Order Priests:
Declined from 158,486 in 1978 to 140,424 today
# of Diocesan Priests:
Increased slightly 264,202 from 262,485 in 1978, with lively growth in vocations in Africa.
The decline in the number of priests may soon reverse because more are studying for the priesthood.
# of Seminarians:
Increased to 109,171 from 62,670 in 1978. Again, the growth is most visible in Africa, with Latin America not too far behind.
Thank You Lord, for our Priests and Seminarians who have answered Your call.
My understanding of the Italian (which I am completely fluent in)
I too am fluent in Italian. "più che un luogo" = "more than a place".
You are simply proving the author correct in his assertion that "traditionalists" pour over and scrutinize every word that is uttered by this pope. Shall we bring out the letters of Bishop Williamson who can't hold a candle to the light emanating from Pope John Paul II.
Finally, the critics I am speaking of should ask themselves whether they, not the Pope, have a warped view. It is so easy for justified concern about the aberrations in Catholic affairs to cause an overreaction, with suspicion of quite legitimate changes. It must never be forgotten that Satan, who loves to provoke division, can appear as an angel of light and lead us astray.
We should remember this paragraph whenever there is talk of "reconciliation", "universal indults", and similar topics. The break from Apostolic tradition is likened to Cain breaking from the rest of the first family to do things his way. Is this not how Lucifer operated? He said "non serviam" and eventually was thrown out of heaven.
The offering of Cain is similar to that found in the novus ordo, "the work of human hands". Abel's offering was that which God have given him. Much like at Mass, where Our Lord gives Himself as the sacrifice to God.
It's so easy to recite the post-conciliar party line, always talking about people overreacting to aberrations which are in reality un-Catholic values, teachings, devotions, practices, and beliefs. Some of us would be doing a great disservice here and everywhere else for not constantly pointing out that Lucifer already got his foot in the door - right there with the heretical documents of Vatican II and the illegal novus ordo service.
I've seen all sorts of innovations in the post-conciliar church to the point that I see at least one a day. From the coffee non-Mass and the pontoon non-Mass to the jazz, "black culture", Caribbean, and beach non-Masses, there's division over there that's multiplying like wild fire. And yet there are people who say we should put up with it. Why? Doesn't this attitude put more souls in danger?
When Church teaching condemned the very things the post-conciliar church promotes, you have to wonder why the pot is calling the kettle black. At least I've seen things on both sides of the fence long enough to know who really has the warped minds. God is not the author of confusion. Why do we have to be bound by ambiguous (if not outright heretical) post-conciliar documents? Is the Wanderer going to tell me I have a warped mind because I noticed there was there was something heretical found in an encyclical, namely, that the chalice of the new and everlasting covenant was shed "for you and for all"? It was written that way in Latin, and I when I saw it, I knew one thing. Manifest heretics can not possibly hold office. There's a likelihood someone is in the Vatican pretending to be someone he's not.
When it comes to doctrine, morals, and tradition, it's an all-or-nothing game. The Wanderer would do well to look at it that way for at least a day. If those columnists succeed in doing that one small task, there may be hope.
Faith, morals, Mass, and sacraments go hand-in-hand. Lex credendi, lex orandi dictates that we can not expect our methods of praying and worship to change without altering out beliefs (why do you think Luther and Cranmer "got their revolution on"?). I'm not about to give up what I just found several months ago just to get on some person's right side. And despite disagreements between traditional groups and even between people in a single group, the one big problem we all agree on is still standing. It would be a lot easier if these folks from the Wanderer as well as like-minded people would rise up and say "enough!" to modernism and "enough!" to innovation and novelty. Nothing good came of it, so it should be dumped. Until Rome does a complete 180-degree turn, the status quo will be maintained.
It would be nice to agree on all things regarding faith and morals for once. Maybe Matt, Likoudis, Gutierrez, Hand, and others could join in and do their part in the battle.
The pope's native tongue is not Italian. That would suggest to me that he did not write this himself in Italian. That raises additional questions:
Which language does the pope use to write his addresses?
Does he even write them, or are they dictated to someone else? If so, in which language?
Who translates them into Italian?
Who proofreads them?
Do they proofread them first in their original language or only in Italian?
How many weekly addresses has the pope delivered in the course of his 25 year pontificate?
As the journalist pointed out in the opening of his article:
The people I am referring to seem to go through papal statements in search of errors and scrutinize the Pope’s activities for inappropriate or imprudent actions.
How many of his weekly addresses have you actually listened to ... correction ... read?
Are there any writings by this pope with which you do agree and if so, which ones?
In this passage, John Paul is saying two things that seem to go against my understanding of Church doctrine.
1)
John Paul said that Hell is not a physical place, but just a spiritual separation from God. If that were the case, one who denied God in this life wouldn't have to wait to die, he would be in Hell right now, on Earth, because of his denial of God.
2)
John Paul said that "The images of hell that Sacred Scripture presents to us must be correctly interpreted," and then interpeted Sacred Scripture in a way I haven't seen before. Does that mean that centuries of Church teachings were flawed?
I'll pose the same questions to you, just in case you missed them.
The pope's native tongue is not Italian. That would suggest to me that he did not write this himself in Italian. That raises additional questions:
Which language does the pope use to write his addresses?
Does he even write them, or are they dictated to someone else? If so, in which language?
Who translates them into Italian?
Who proofreads them?
Do they proofread them first in their original language or only in Italian?
How many weekly addresses has the pope delivered in the course of his 25 year pontificate?
As the journalist pointed out in the opening of his article:
The people I am referring to seem to go through papal statements in search of errors and scrutinize the Pope’s activities for inappropriate or imprudent actions.
How many of his weekly addresses have you actually listened to ... correction ... read?
Are there any writings by this pope with which you do agree and if so, which ones?
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