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Dancing Our Prayers Away?
TCR News ^ | June 2003 | Carrie Tomko

Posted on 06/12/2003 6:57:13 AM PDT by NYer

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To: sandyeggo
Saul was not left bereft.
141 posted on 06/12/2003 10:31:28 PM PDT by pascendi
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To: NYer; Polycarp
Um, Polycarp, does NYer's Post 91 qualify?

Apatheism

142 posted on 06/12/2003 10:55:21 PM PDT by TotusTuus (Ordinary Time: The season of our vocation in the world)
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To: TotusTuus; NYer
Uh, no. Too much zeal and righteous anger on her part.

Now if she knew it was wrong, but instead of fighting it rolled over and joined the new Liturgical Dance Costume Creation Ministry Subcommittee of the Lady's Altar Guild Society, then it might qualify.

143 posted on 06/12/2003 11:13:01 PM PDT by Polycarp (Free Republic: Where Apatheism meets "Conservatism.")
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To: Corin Stormhands
And I happen to attend one of those charismatic churches. I can assure you that the worship is pure and holy as well as jubilant.

I think one of the important points in a discussion like this is to examine the different types of worship among Christians. Trying to superficially compare the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass with a typical pentecostal or fundamentalist worship service, for example, is trying to compare apples with oranges. The purposes and goals are quite different.

From a Catholic perspective, our Lord offers Himself in our time and space in an unbloody manner, in His one time and eternal Sacrifice of Calvary, on our behalf. The fruits of that Sacrifice are made present to us. To participate in the Mass, is to be present spiritually at these events. It is hard to see how dancing can enhance our participation, rather, it would help detract from the reality that we believe is occuring.

Most Protestants in America reject the whole idea of the Mass, and therefore talk about Church services. For some, reading and preaching from the Bible and singing songs to the Lord form the basis of their "central" worship. It is easy to see how dancing could be incorporated in this type of service without much of a problem.

While the Mass is the heart and core of Liturgy in the Church, the liturgical worship extends to additional forms. Perhaps, in dignified forms, the question of liturgical dance could occur outside of the Mass proper. Additionally, there are extra-liturgical worship forms used by some Catholics, some of which parallel what other Churches and ecclesial communions do for worship. Charismatic Catholics come to mind, as does some of the services done by the Neo-Catechumenate Way. "Dancing" is not necessarily out of the question in these forms.

144 posted on 06/12/2003 11:32:33 PM PDT by TotusTuus (Ordinary Time: The season of our vocation in the world)
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To: southern_living
No one was dancing at religious worship services within the temple area. David was dancing on his way through the city.

And even then, I believe the Hebrew points to a specific type of dance understood in that culture. A type that we Westerners would not necessarily recognize or understand. (Sort of a 'spur of the moment' non-choreographed 'whirling' dance in ecstasy done alone).

And remember, in the larger picture, it was the second attempt to move the Ark of the Covenant, which was, how shall we say, much more solemn than the first attempt?

For people who like to use this Scriptural passage for their liturgy-lite purposes, I would think reading the full context would go a long way in explaining why liturgy-lite is not a good idea! The first attempt seemed so much more fun - until an unfortunate non-Levite innocently touched the Ark (second no-no) which was carried on a cart (first no-no. The Ark was to be carried on the backs of the Levites with the poles commanded by God).

David and the rest of Israel had to go back and study up on the Law - a Law that pointed to the solemn Holiness of God and how to approach Him in worship - that God gave them concerning the Ark for their second attempt. Sound familiar? Maybe the Bishops need to review the Torah and Kings when making their decision.

145 posted on 06/12/2003 11:59:36 PM PDT by TotusTuus (Ordinary Time: The season of our vocation in the world)
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To: NYer

The Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius Loyola have inspired and formed Christians for centuries. The Exercises have taken on a variety of forms, perhaps none as unique as this one. Rev. Robert VerEecke, S.J. has created a multimedia experience of music, dance, and performance which makes the Exercises come alive with renewed imagination and spiritual impact.

146 posted on 06/13/2003 4:52:21 AM PDT by american colleen
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To: Loyalist
Gag! Puke! Choke!
Did you write that? Or was that Marty Haugen? Whoever did certainly has the ICEL style of "translating" down...
147 posted on 06/13/2003 6:00:43 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard
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To: drstevej
Theological liberals (RCC ad Prot) are as unprincipaled as democrats.

Well Surprahse, surprahse, surprahse! For the most part, they are democrats.

148 posted on 06/13/2003 6:02:54 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard
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To: american colleen; NYer; BlackElk; Hermann the Cherusker; Calvinist_Dark_Lord; CCWoody; Polycarp; ...
Although the picture is black and white, let me guess: this jesuit dude is wearin' lavender.

Can't wait for his video with Richard Simmons,

Sweatin to the Rosary!
149 posted on 06/13/2003 6:12:42 AM PDT by drstevej
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To: american colleen; NYer; BlackElk; Hermann the Cherusker; Calvinist_Dark_Lord; CCWoody; Polycarp
[1] [2] 

Match the picture with the identification...

[a]    The Wizard of Oz Christmas Show (Youngstars2.com of Melbourne)

[b]    A Dancer's Christmas (Boston Liturgical Dance Ensemble)

150 posted on 06/13/2003 6:24:52 AM PDT by drstevej
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To: TotusTuus; drstevej
Well, whatever. Some 150 posts later no one has provided a scriptural basis for the inclusion or exclusion of dance in worship.
151 posted on 06/13/2003 6:39:34 AM PDT by Corin Stormhands (http://wardsmythe.crimsonblog.com)
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To: Corin Stormhands
Actually, I have no problem with dramatic elements in presenting spiritual truth or expressing worship.

I do, however, see why RCs are offended with using it in the mass given the theology of the mass they believe. The very name "clown mass" is a indication that something's amiss.
152 posted on 06/13/2003 6:44:27 AM PDT by drstevej
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To: drstevej
The very name "clown mass" is a indication that something's amiss.

Agreed.

I've already spent much more time on this thread than I ever intended.

153 posted on 06/13/2003 6:50:36 AM PDT by Corin Stormhands (http://wardsmythe.crimsonblog.com)
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To: drstevej
Sweatin to the Rosary!

LOL!

I deliberately left off any personal commentary from that picture and why it was in black and white (had the same thought you did, especially when I saw no discernable body hair).

Don't it figure he's a Jebbie.

154 posted on 06/13/2003 6:53:09 AM PDT by american colleen
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To: NYer
This is the logical next step. First the "presider" turned around to face his audience, converting the sanctuary into a stage for his folksy, stand-up comedic routine. Musicians soon followed. Now here come the dancers.
155 posted on 06/13/2003 6:54:21 AM PDT by ultima ratio
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To: Salvation
Contact the bishops? Are you kidding? They have an agenda. This is another turning of the screw.
156 posted on 06/13/2003 6:56:42 AM PDT by ultima ratio
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To: NYer
They are devilishly clever. There's always some sort of justification. They did away with kneeling for Communion by giving the excuse that there was a "traffic" problem in the aisles. Now they talk about the body being a reflection of the soul. Apparently only when it's not in a kneeling posture.

The truth is these people are trying to impose a new religion. They do it bit by bit, making sure a whole generation has grown up without any real catechesis, and turning Bugnini's Mass into a musical comedy. Meanwhile the Pope is off in his own space somewhere waving his stick at youth rallies.
157 posted on 06/13/2003 7:11:15 AM PDT by ultima ratio
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To: saradippity; NYer
If liturgical dance is approved, can this be far behind?


158 posted on 06/13/2003 7:18:56 AM PDT by american colleen
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To: american colleen
The new GIRM does away with even the EE Ministers being at the altar, so these pictures would cease to exist if they follow the new GIRM.

Looks like their site need a little FReeping, eh?
159 posted on 06/13/2003 8:10:34 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: american colleen
OH! Whew!

It is an Episcopal Church in Sanfrancisco, no less!

160 posted on 06/13/2003 8:13:25 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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