Skip to comments.Dancing Our Prayers Away?
Posted on 06/12/2003 6:57:13 AM PDT by NYer
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This MUST be stopped .... NOW!!!
In general, experimentation is gravely wrong, as stated in Vatican II's Instruction on the Orderly Carrying out of the Constitution on the Liturgy (Liturgicae Instaurationes):
"The effectiveness of liturgy does not lie in experimenting with rites and altering them over and over, nor in a continuous reductionism, but solely in entering more deeply into the word of God and the mystery being celebrated. It is the presence of these two that authenticates the Church's rites, not what some priest decides, indulging his own preferences."
"Keep in mind, then, that the private recasting of ritual introduced by an individual priest insults the dignity of the believer and lays the way open to individual and idiosyncratic forms in celebrations that are in fact the property of the whole Church."
Those of you who wish to join me in this campaign (I can hardly type, my hands are shaking), please let me know. I have already researched this topic and have extensive references that are proven to stop the introduction of liturgical dance.
Contact your bishop via email, phone or fax to make sure this is happening in your area!
this=implementation of the new GIRM
And that the dancing is NOT happening!
Some people have a queer idea of "sacred". Of all the pieces of "liturgical experimentation" to which we have been subjected, "liturgical dance" is by far the most evil. The 9AM Folk Group and the 11:30 Downbeat Combo Band are bad enough, but these dancers clearly and undeniably pervert the God-centered Holy Sacrifice of the Mass into a Man-centered performance.
These jokers are schismatics anyway.
There's no point in complaining to anyone in the hierarchy about people who think that being Polish is more important than being Catholic.
I believe that Cardinal Ratzinger made the point some years ago that dancing in the West has always been associated with recreation and physical courtship and its only religious associations have been with highly immoral fertility cults.
Artificially introducing dance into the Roman liturgy is, on its face, an attack on two thousand years of Western liturgical tradition.
Parishioners who are treated to such spectacles should inform the pastor that they are personally insulted and that they are concerned for the well-being of the parish.
Then you MUST act NOW!! I have already written to my bishop this year but I am only one voice crying in the wilderness. It took two letters and lots of freeper guidance and help but it was prevented!
Here is the subtle nuance that the parishes and dioceses currently use to permit liturgical dance. According to the Notitiae, issued in 1975, the bishops authorized that dance be commended for further study. In other words, the parishes currently using this illicit practice do so under that guise. HOWEVER, in the same Notitiae, the same document specifically sets forth standards for such a study.
The first: to the extent in which the body is a reflection of the soul, dancing, with all its manifestations, would have to express sentiments of faith and adoration in order to become a prayer.
The second condition: just as all the gestures and movements found in the liturgy are regulated by the competent ecclesiastical authority, so also dancing as a gesture would have to be under its discipline.
If the proposal of the religious dance in the West is really to be made welcome, care will have to be taken that in its regard a place be found outside of the liturgy, in assembly areas which are not strictly liturgical. Moreover, the priests must always be excluded from the dance.
There will be a professional dancer there, at the request of the Cleveland Diocese diocese (one of the MOST liberal) to speak on behalf of liturgical dance.
How does one demand equal time?
Is it too late to have someone speak at the conference?
Who must they contact to do so?
Pope Piel I
The Pocket Fisher of Men
Now taking applications for positions once the white smoke goes up and yours truly dons the white and gold chest high waders.
A Three Par Golf Course on the Vatican Grounds
A Vatican QVC channel hosted by Mrs. Pope Piel
A High-tech Surround Sound Sistine Theater run by the Pope's (yes they are legitimate) kids
A Worldwide Chain of Torquemada Hotels where guests can leave their heresy behind (or else)
A Worldwide Pay-Per-View Humiliation and Expulsion of the Lavendar Mafia to raise Funds for the victims.
Not Coming Soon:
No Koran kissing or sniffing
No clown or hula masses
No Altar-ettes doing New Age swirling dances and offering loaves of Wonder Bread
Suggestions are welcomed via freepmail.
I wouldn't even bother to make an appearance.
These conferences always utilize the "Delphi" crowd management/consensus consulting method.
No orthodox person can get a fair hearing by definition.
Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.
I didn't find it either. But I did find this.
Address on the bottom of the page:
Committee on the Liturgy
United States Conference of Catholic Bishops
3211 4th Street, N.E.
Washington, DC 20017-1194 (202) 541-3060
I don't buy that! I demand equal time!
Who do I email at this late hour? Which of the conservative bishops shares our views ... Bruskewitz? Dolan? Who?
These conferences and gatherings are prearranged and scheduled.
The speakers are preselected for their ideology before it even begins.
The subject matter of the gathering starts off from a "hermeneutic of suspicion" - any defense of orthodoxy will be seen as a fascistic move to close off debate.
He who plans the meeting and picks the particiapnts controls the meeting.
This document is not very encouraging! The Holy Father starts out well:
"The subject on which I would like to reflect with you further today is the pastoral care of the liturgy and sacraments, taking into account the essential role every Bishop and the Episcopal Conferences have in this area, as I recalled in my Apostolic Letter for the 25th anniversary of the Council's Constitution Sacrosanctum Concilium, (4 December 1988, nn. 20-21)."
However, in the next paragraph, he says:
"The liturgy, which expresses the Church's proper nature and is a source for the mission, is given to us by the Church herself to glorify God: thus its laws, which should be respected by distinguishing the different roles carried out by ordained ministers and by lay people. Whatever directs believers to God, what gathers them and what unites them with one another and with all the other assemblies should be given priority. "
You know as well as I that statements of this sort are easily spun, by the moderninsts like Mahony, Clark and the bsp of Cleveland, into whatever "they" believe it to mean. That statement could easily become a ringing endorsement for liturgical dance, or other abuses.
It's a start. Will you help me in this effort? Please, please email them, assuming it isn't too late. The conference begins this weekend which may mean that they have already left. This is so frustrating!!!
NYer, OK, maybe not the whole thread (else they think we are nuts with a Calvinist at the helm) but you write well and you could send Mark Shea a little note. Bet he blogs on it.
That's great if you're Jewish.
Excuse my ignorance but who is he?
BTW, the Bishop's conference is not until next week, that still leaves time to email some of the bishops. Please help!
You got a source for a New Testament scripture that says "toss out the Psalms?"
Got one that says include them? Psalms are songs of praise to God. Any method of worship mentioned in the Psalms would have to have been acceptable within the old Law. Christians are not under the law, therefore methods of worship that were once acceptable may no longer be. Sacrificed any animals lately?
Christians must look to the NT for acceptable worship.
Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
I will write letters or e-mail, but I am rather challenged on that score. Hows about you compose a loose idea for a letter and I'll (and anyone else interested) can use that?
Psalm 149:3 Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.
Lies! LIES! LIES! LIES!!!!!
(Did you expect anything less???)
From the Douai Old Testament:
The church is particularly bound to praise God.
1 Sing ye to the Lord a new canticle: let his praise be in the church of the saints.
2 Let Israel rejoice in him that made him: and let the children of Sion be joyful in their king.
3 Let them praise his name in choir: let them sing to him with the timbrel and the psaltery. (laudent nomen eius in choro in tympano et cithara cantent ei)
4 For the Lord is well pleased with his people: and he will exalt the meek unto salvation.
5 The saints shall rejoice in glory: they shall be joyful in their beds.
6 The high praises of God shall be in their mouth: and two-edged swords in their hands:
7 To execute vengeance upon the nations, chastisements among the people:
8 To bind their kings with fetters, and their nobles with manacles of iron.
9 To execute upon them the judgment that is written: this glory is to all his saints. Alleluia.
Laudate Dominum in sanctis.
An exhortation to praise God with all sorts of instruments.
1 Praise ye the Lord in his holy places: praise ye him in the firmament of his power.
2 Praise ye him for his mighty acts: praise ye him according to the multitude of his greatness.
3 Praise him with the sound of trumpet: praise him with psaltery and harp.
4 Praise him with timbrel and choir: praise him with strings and organs. (laudate eum in tympano et choro laudate eum in cordis et organo)
5 Praise him on high sounding cymbals: praise him on cymbals of joy: let every spirit praise the Lord. Alleluia.
But of course, its old hat to just retranslate the Bible to make it support whatever the hell you want it to now support.
Or ritually circumcised your sons?
Not this week. But then Christ presesnted himself as the final sacrifice, not the final waltz.
All authority for christian worship comes from the the NT. The word 'dance' is found nowhere in the NT.
Pithy and direct.
Perhaps,a little "attaboy" might do the trick. We could send a little note to the bishops saying something like "I am happy to see the big catholic tent finally opening it's arms to Naziism,for so long I have felt that the admiration and adulation of all things Marxist and Bolshevic evidenced by so many of you in the USCCB,was so terribly unfair to the Nazis."
" Now finally you are recognizing some of the underpinnings that were foundational to the National Socialist Party.Bring on the dancers and lets inextricably admix the idaologies of Marx and Hitler,however,I am a little concerned about anti-semitism. Was not that considered a natural outgrowth of Naziism?"
"On the other hand,it is a wonderful tribute to your new found enthusiasm for inclusivity,equal oppurtunity and cultural diversity. You guys are just so darn smart."
(This is a little sarcasm.)
I ignore nothing from the OT. It was written for our understanding.
Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
But I only look to the NT for authority in worship.
What other parts of the old law do you keep? Dietary restrictions? Stoning of someone who works on the sabbath? Selling your children into bondage?
But that was just for fun. :)