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"It is truly fascinating to observe you in action. Please continue to display your skills in foolish, arrogant, uncharitable behavior. You serve me well by confirming impressions I have previously posted about your church."

Right, right. Okay, well, such comments might make you feel better, but reverse psychology won't work here. So how about this? What if you actually deal with the *issue* instead of lapsing into name calling? After all, you made the statement, in response to my earlier posts:

"I am unsure about the actual significance of this belief in the Orthodox church, as I have never once heard it discussed in any sermon, etc. Nor does the average Orthodox surfer tend to find writings and discussion about it on the net, on Orthodox sites."

I provided examples, drawn from bona fide Orthodox sources you could easily double-check, demonstrating that this doctrine is indeed significant in Orthodox Tradition. And that is somehow "foolish," "arrogant," and "uncharitable"? Is it possible that your apparent grudge against Catholics and the Catholic Church is clouding your good judgement when you should be standing up for a significant doctrine of your Church? I don't know, but based on the tone of your comments (see above as an example of what I mean), it seems that way.

Do you want to know what's truly fascinating? The truly fascinating thing is that I've been defending here the Orthodox Churches' Holy Tradition about Mary, but yet you, an Orthodox believer, sit back and take potshots at me, a Catholic, for doing so. I wonder why that is.

It is true that it is our position, but our views on Mary are very different from yours, as evidenced by the following, I think.

Dormition

"The Orthodox Church teaches that Mary is without personal sins. In the Gospel of the feast, however, in the liturgical services and in the Dormition icon, the Church proclaims as well that Mary truly needed to be saved by Christ as all human persons are saved from the trials, sufferings and death of this world; and that having truly died, she was raised up by her Son as the Mother of Life and participates already in the eternal life of paradise which is prepared and promised to all who "hear the word of God and keep it." (Luke 11:27-28)

Thus, the feast of the Dormition of the Theotokos is the celebration of the fact that all men are "highly exalted" in the blessedness of the victorious Christ, and that this high exaltation has already been accomplished in Mary the Theotokos. The feast of the Dormition is the sign, the guarantee, and the celebration that Mary's fate is, the destiny of all those of "low estate" whose souls magnify the Lord, whose spirits rejoice in God the Saviour, whose lives are totally dedicated to hearing and keeping the Word of God which is given to men in Mary's child, the Saviour and Redeemer of the world.

Finally it must be stressed that, in all of the feasts of the Virgin Mother of God in the Church, the Orthodox Christians celebrate facts of their own lives in Christ and the Holy Spirit. What happens to Mary happens to all who imitate her holy life of humility, obedience, and love. With her all people will be "blessed" to be "more honorable than the cherubim and beyond compare more glorious than the seraphim" if they follow her example. All will have Christ born in them by the Holy Spirit. All will become temples of the living God. All will share in the eternal life of His Kingdom who live the life that Mary lived."

In other words, we honor her for giving birth to Christ but we stop short of making her into a fourth member of the Holy Trinity.

I provided examples, drawn from bona fide Orthodox sources you could easily double-check, demonstrating that this doctrine is indeed significant in Orthodox Tradition.

Correction. You think you did. I already have this writing of Saint Gregory Palamas, and a great deal more of his writings, on my bookshelf. It says nothing that is new to me, and contrary to your church's belief, apparently, the topic is not one he spent much time on.

The link you provided is from a clergy member who has been very controversial in our church and some would say less kind things about. I surmise from a previous thread with my friend Hermann that you think you can just go find some person using the word "Orthodox" and put their quotes up and bingo, you have it now.

If you were truly observant you might have noticed that I posted very early in this thread agreeing with you that the early church did hold this position. What I have found recently indicates to me, however, that we hold a slightly different position on this than your church does.

Finally, significant is a subjective word. From outside the church you are free to create your own beliefs, but I am willing to bet that most of the clergy at my church would not consider this doctrine to be very significant, and after all you are *outside* of the church.

So, in spite of your many unkind accusations about me - that I must not really be Orthodox or go to liturgy very often, or that I don't read very much about Orthodoxy, you are the one who is ignorant here.

You are new here, Patrick. Some of the Protestants here have become good friends to me and with many of them we Orthodox share a wonderful opportunity to discuss differences and exchange doctrine, and we still maintain respect for each other and don't get nasty.
OP is one of those people. So don't think that finding one trivial thing in which the Orthodox church agrees with the RC church is going to work as a divisional tactic.

Is it possible that your apparent grudge against Catholics and the Catholic Church...

Yeah, something about hundreds of thousands of my people being tortured, burned alive, hung in markets with meat signs on their bodies, and having their throats slit by members of your church....well, you know, it just kind of sticks with a person. After your current pope decided to beatify the person in charge of these sadisms, we Orthodox knew what the writing on the wall said. We're slow, admittedly, but not completely stupid.