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To: NYer
"And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen." - Matthew 28:18-20

Yes, let's look at these verses from AFTER the crucifixtion, closely.

Matthew 28
18   And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19   Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20   Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

from the Greek
1781 entellomai en-tel'-lom-ahee from 1722 and the base of 5056; to enjoin:--(give) charge, (give) command(-ments), injoin.
1) to order, command to be done, enjoin

Go ye
from the Greek
4198 poreuomai por-yoo'-om-ahee middle voice from a derivative of the same as 3984; to traverse, i.e. travel (literally or figuratively; especially to remove (figuratively, die), live, etc.); --depart, go (away, forth, one's way, up), (make a, take a) journey, walk.
to lead over, carry over, transfer
a) to pursue the journey on which one has entered, to continue on one's journey

to depart from life
to follow one, that is: become his adherent
1) to lead or order one's life

from the Greek
matheteuo math-ayt-yoo'-o from 3101; intransitively, to become a pupil; transitively, to disciple, i.e. enrol as scholar:--be disciple, instruct, teach.
1) to be a disciple of one
a) to follow his precepts and instructions
2) to make a disciple
a) to teach, instruct

from the Greek
1484 ethnos eth'-nos probably from 1486; a race (as of the same habit), i.e. a tribe; specially, a foreign (non-Jewish) one (usually, by implication, pagan):--Gentile, heathen, nation, people.
a multitude (whether of men or of beasts) associated or living together
a company, troop, swarm
a multitude of individuals of the same nature or genus
the human family
a tribe, nation, people group
4) in the OT, foreign nations not worshipping the true God, pagans, Gentiles

5) Paul uses the term for Gentile Christians

Notice that it is pagans and Gentiles that are to be taught.  The Jews already know the doctrines,
precepts and commandments which apply to them.  The Jews were/are to be a 'light unto the nations'.

from the Greek
1321 didasko did-as'-ko a prolonged (causative) form of a primary verb dao (to learn); to teach (in the same broad application):--teach. 
1) to teach
  a) to hold discourse with others in order to instruct them, deliver didactic discourses
  b) to be a teacher
  c) to discharge the office of a teacher, conduct one's self as a teacher
2) to teach one
  a) to impart instruction
  b) instill doctrine into one
  c) the thing taught or enjoined
  d) to explain or expound a thing
to teach one something

Jesus' disciples and Apostles were to teach all Gentiles in all nations to observe  the doctrines and precepts as commanded by Jesus, which was verified to the Jerusalem Council by the Holy Spirit

Acts 15
28   For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; 29   That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Acts 15 occured about 30 years AFTER the crucifixtion.

from the Greek
tereo tay-reh'-o from teros (a watch; perhaps akin to 2334); to guard (from loss or injury, properly, by keeping the eye upon; and thus differing from 5442, which is properly to prevent escaping; and from 2892, which implies a fortress or full military lines of apparatus), i.e. to note (a prophecy; figuratively, to fulfil a command); by implication, to detain (in custody; figuratively, to maintain); by extension, to withhold (for personal ends; figuratively, to keep unmarried); by extension, to withhold (for personal ends; figuratively, to keep unmarried):--hold fast, keep(- er), (pre-, re-)serve, watch.
1) to attend to carefully, take care of
a) to guard
b) metaph. to keep, one in the state in which he is
c) to observe
to reserve: to undergo something

John 14
23   Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24   He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Jesus intended the Gentiles of the world  learn "Apostolic doctrines" as it existed then and which the early church "steadfastly continued in according to Acts 2:42", or was he referring to Greek Catholic doctrines, Reformation doctrines, or Protestant doctrines which would be created much later? That shouldn't be hard to figure out.

Acts 2
42   And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Remember that Hegesippus records that the Law and Prophets were taught until all the Apostles died off.:

... Up to that period the Church had remained like a virgin pure and uncorrupted: for, if there were any persons who were disposed to tamper with the wholesome rule of the preaching of salvation,11 they still lurked in some dark place of concealment or other. But, when the sacred band of apostles had in various ways closed their lives, and that generation of men to whom it had been vouchsafed to listen to the Godlike Wisdom with their own ears had passed away, then did the confederacy of godless error take its rise through the treachery of false teachers, who, seeing that none of the apostles any longer survived, at length attempted with bare and uplifted head to oppose the preaching of the truth by preaching "knowledge falsely so called."On my arrival at Rome, I drew up a list of the succession of bishops down to Anicetus, whose deacon was Eleutherus. To Anicetus succeeded Soter, and after him came Eleutherus. But in the case of every succession,14 and in every city, the state of affairs is in accordance with the teaching of the Law and of the Prophets and of the Lord....

Therefore was the Church called a virgin, for she was not as yet corrupted by worthless teaching.15 Thebulis it was who, displeased because he was not made bishop, first began to corrupt her by stealth. . .  . Each of these leaders in his own private and distinct capacity brought in his own private opinion. From these have come false Christs, false prophets, false apostles-men who have split up the one Church into parts16 through their corrupting doctrines, uttered in disparagement of God and of His Christ....

Jesus intended his Apostles and Paul, as well as others, to share with Gentiles, to instruct them, teach them, impart instruction, instill doctrine into them, and explain and expound the things he taught.  Not, just believing in him!

John 4:22

Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

Did you catch that?  Salvation is of the Jews.  NOT WAS, IS

As Gentile Christians, and according to the words used by the Holy Spirit, most have not been taught, let alone observe, the things commanded, per Acts 15:27-28. Gentiles kept the Biblical Feasts and Saturday Sabbath well after the crucifixtion of Jesus, into the fourth century when it was changed by Roman paganism.

Can you preserve those things both taught and commanded by Jesus if you ascribe to REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY which says that the Law and the Biblical Feasts have passed away and that we are no longer under the Law?  Can you preserve and obey those things both taught and commanded by Jesus if you believe that the writings and letters of Paul (New Testament) have replaced the writings of Moses (Old Testament)?   Keep in mind, it was 400 years after the crucifixtion, before there was a New Testament.

Jesus taught his followers to teach all Gentiles to observe all those things which he had previously commanded to be done. (Matthew 28:20, after the crucifiction)

Taking into account Paul's 'new creature':

2 Corinthians 5
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

What did Paul mean by 'new creature'?

2937 ktisis ktis'-is from the root 2936; original formation (properly, the act; by implication, the thing, literally or figuratively):--building, creation, creature, ordinance.
1) the act of founding, establishing, building etc
a) the act of creating, creation
b) creation i.e. thing created
1) of individual things, beings, a creature, a creation
a) anything created
b) after a rabbinical usage (by which a man converted
from idolatry to Judaism was called)

c) the sum or aggregate of things created
c) institution, ordinance

2936 ktizo ktid'-zo probably akin to 2932 (through the idea of proprietorship of the manufacturer); to fabricate, i.e. found (form originally):--create, Creator, make.
1) to make habitable, to people, a place, region, island
a) to found a city, colony, state
2) to create
a) of God creating the worlds
b) to form, shape, i.e. to completely change or transform

Converting from idolatry to Judaism, showing God's proprietorship over us his creations.

When the Apostle Paul instructs Gentiles in Corinth to come to God through Jesus he intends them to become "new creatures" by leaving their idolatry and convert to Judaism and not Catholic or Protestant Christianity as we know it today.

It becomes obvious that Jesus intended for the Gentiles in the various nations of the world to be taught the COMMANDMENTS AND HOW TO CORRECTLY OBSERVE THEM!

11 posted on 06/29/2003 12:14:04 PM PDT by ET(end tyranny) ( Luke 16:17 -- And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.)
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To: ET(end tyranny); Patrick Madrid
Hey, no need to shout! I can read perfectly well.

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ." - Matthew 16:13-20

Do we agree that this account is attributed to the apostle Matthew? Do we agree that Matthew is quoting our Lord? Do we agree that if it is written in the Bible, then indeed Christ said this?

You refer to Hegesippus. But, who was Hegesippus? Very little is known of Hegesippus.[ Probably he was a Palestinian Jew, born c. 110, and later converted to Christianity. Under Pope Anicetus (155-166) he undertook a journey throughout Christendom, which led him to Corinth and later to Rome. The purpose of this trip was to collect on the spot the teachings of the various churches which he visited, and to ascertain their uniformity with Rome. He determined in this city the list of the succession of bishops down to Anicetus. On his return to his native land he composed, during the pontificate of Pope Eleutherius (174-189), According to the Paschal Chronicle, he died c. 180.

The work of Hegesippus bears the title of Memoirs ('Upomnhmata). It comprised five books, but is almost entirely lost. We are able, however, to form some idea of the work with the aid of indications and citations furnished by Eusebius. It was not, as St. Jerome would have it, a coherent history of the Church from the passion of our Lord until the middle of the second century, but rather a polemical treatise against the Gnostics, setting forth the facts and the evidence for the truth of the Church's official teaching. Eusebius does not hesitate to rank Hegesippus among the defenders of tradition. "He has narrated," he says, "in a very simple way the infallible tradition of the Apostolic teaching." This is the reason why Hegesippus was so interested in the traditions of the churches and in the succession of the bishops who guaranteed their integrity.

Hegesippus does not seem to have been a very learned man nor a very able writer. His Greek is awkward and he lacked critical acumen; but he was an attentive observer and a sincere witness, highly esteemed by Eusebius.

Eusebius of Caesarea

"At that time [A.D. 150] there flourished in the Church Hegesippus, whom we know from what has gone before, and Dionysius, bishop of Corinth, and another bishop, Pinytus of Crete, and besides these, Philip, and Apollinarius, and Melito, and Musanus, and Modestus, and, finally, Irenaeus. From them has come down to us in writing, the sound and orthodox faith received from tradition" (Church History 4:21).

So, what is your point? Christ handed His church to Peter. Hegesippus, 100 years later, documents the papal descendency.

13 posted on 06/29/2003 3:15:59 PM PDT by NYer (Laudate Dominum)
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