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Vatican Says Celibacy Rule Nonnegotiable
Fox News ^ | June 28, 2003

Posted on 06/28/2003 2:21:40 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah

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To: sinkspur
What about the idea that an unmarried man can more completely serve the Church and the people in his parish? There's something to be said for the fact that an unmarried priest can more completely dedicate himself.
41 posted on 06/30/2003 6:36:58 AM PDT by B Knotts
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To: sinkspur
Dear sinkspur,

I'm not quibbling.

You seem to criticize Catholics for being cheap:

"Catholics are cheapskates; we're used to people who live in poverty serving us."

Since you use the first person plural, "we", I assume you're not talking about bishops, but rather us regular old Catholic folks, layfolks (if you mention that you are a deacon, I will accuse you of quibbling - I think I assume correctly when I assume that you identify more with us folks in the pews than the folks in the chanceries).

So, you seem critical of us ordinary Catholics for preferring that those who serve us live in poverty, or near to it (I don't know of anyone on the payroll of any church, or of any diocesan entity in the Archdiocese of Washington who lives in poverty - though many make very modest incomes).

But you seem to wish that priests and bishops live ascetically.

And, if married men could be ordained, is it your position that they AND their families be required to live ascetically? If not in actual poverty, only a step or two above it?

There appears to be a contradiction between two parts of your own vision of what the Church should be. I'm not quibbling about it. I'm trying to show you the contradiction, and ask you to address it, to reconcile it.


sitetest
42 posted on 06/30/2003 6:45:54 AM PDT by sitetest
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To: B Knotts
What about the idea that an unmarried man can more completely serve the Church and the people in his parish? There's something to be said for the fact that an unmarried priest can more completely dedicate himself.

No question they can.

I'd ask the Catholic parishes served by the married Protestant converts, and Eastern Rite parishes served by married priests in Europe, what they think of the dedication of their priests as well.

I know I keep harping on this Anglican dispensation, but I think one of the reasons it was originally allowed was as an experiment to see how married priests will work in a Catholic parish, and the guise of Protestant converts gave the Vatican the loophole.

Now that it's working so well, there's no logical argument that can be mustered as to why the Vatican doesn't allow married Catholic men into the priesthood as well. That's why the Vatican feels it necessary to pound the table every year, reminding Catholics that there will be mandatory celibacy (even if we can't really explain why).

This last proclamation, celibacy was an afterthought, tacked on to a larger discussion of the mention of Christianity's heritage in the EU constitution.

43 posted on 06/30/2003 6:53:15 AM PDT by sinkspur
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To: american colleen
Not many parents encourage their sons to enter the priesthood because: 1. They probably only have one son ...

I was just at a cookout with five other Catholic families. Four of us have two kids each and one has one kid.

In other words, contraception is the major problem. Catholic Moral Theology demands that parents should strive to have at least four children (gosh, how hard is it for most who marry before age 34?). This is one reason for that.

44 posted on 06/30/2003 2:34:35 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
Dear Hermann,

"(gosh, how hard is it for most who marry before age 34?)."

For some, it can be very difficult, indeed.


sitetest
45 posted on 06/30/2003 2:36:06 PM PDT by sitetest
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To: WriteOn; sinkspur
My sister is like stinky and thinks married priests and priestesses would be in step with the times.

Our friendly neighborhood Deacon does not, as far as I know, advocate for priestesses, which is formal doctrinal heresy since the 1994 definition. Your sister is NOT a Catholic, though she may like to think she is.

46 posted on 06/30/2003 2:36:36 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: american colleen; sinkspur
I think of Padre Pio and wonder if he could have lived the life he did while married and raising a family.

From what I have read of the lives of some of the Russian mystic priest saints, I think he probably could have. Although Padre Pio was pure, a little earthly purgatory can help anyone on their way to sanctity ;-)

47 posted on 06/30/2003 2:39:28 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: WriteOn; sinkspur
Yes and Humane Vitae is reformable, too

No it isn't. Humane Vitae is an enshrining of unchangeable principles of the moral law, and is based upon Casti Connubii, in which Pope Pius XI defined infallibly against birth control. Please stop defaming Sinky and misrepresenting the teaching of the Church in this magnificent Encyclical:

56. Since, therefore, openly departing from the uninterrupted Christian tradition some recently have judged it possible solemnly to declare another doctrine regarding this question, the Catholic Church, to whom God has entrusted the defense of the integrity and purity of morals, standing erect in the midst of the moral ruin which surrounds her, in order that she may preserve the chastity of the nuptial union from being defiled by this foul stain, raises her voice in token of her divine ambassadorship and through Our mouth proclaims anew: any use whatsoever of matrimony exercised in such a way that the act is deliberately frustrated in its natural power to generate life is an offense against the law of God and of nature, and those who indulge in such are branded with the guilt of a grave sin.

57. We admonish, therefore, priests who hear confessions and others who have the care of souls, in virtue of Our supreme authority and in Our solicitude for the salvation of souls, not to allow the faithful entrusted to them to err regarding this most grave law of God; much more, that they keep themselves immune from such false opinions, in no way conniving in them. If any confessor or pastor of souls, which may God forbid, lead the faithful entrusted to him into these errors or should at least confirm them by approval or by guilty silence, let him be mindful of the fact that he must render a strict account to God, the Supreme Judge, for the betrayal of his sacred trust ...

Reformable my foot!

48 posted on 06/30/2003 2:46:32 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: american colleen; sinkspur
Eating meat on Fridays is on par with Communion in the hand or on the tongue, bowing instead of genuflecting, etc.

Meatless Fridays is an Apostolic Tradition, like Lent, the use of the Sanctus at Mass, mixing water with the wine at Mass, the Sunday obligation, and the Order of the Diaconate, etc. See the Didache. Are those things reformable?

It is also still in the Code of Canon Law. If you do not do another penance on all Fridays, you must abstain from meat under the penalty of grave sin. The matter is intrinsically tied up with the satisfaction of divine law, which the Church has universalised for the faithful on Fridays, just as she universalised Sunday Mass attendance to satisfy the 3rd Commandment; that is why it is a grave sin. The only parvity of matter here is if one simply forgets out of absentmindedness, or does not realize Friday is still a day of abstinence unless some other penance is selected.

49 posted on 06/30/2003 2:53:34 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: sinkspur
You know as well as I do that there are some hierarchs who look at the checkbook balance before they get on their knees in the morning.

I thought that was what they did while on their knees each morning!

50 posted on 06/30/2003 2:55:25 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: B Knotts; sinkspur
When has a priest ever made himself available recently to come and serve you or your family personally for anything other than a Baptism, Wedding, Serious Illness, or Funeral?
51 posted on 06/30/2003 2:56:22 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: sinkspur
Any priest who is striving to fulfill Christ's Great Cmmission to go out and baptize and teach all what He commanded them,is aware that it is impossible to serve two masters. Or more accurately,"you can't serve both a master and a mistress".
52 posted on 06/30/2003 3:01:17 PM PDT by saradippity
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To: sinkspur
The fact that your young Hispanic priest has to write out every word he delivers in his homilies is a gift from God. Out here we have priests that play fast and loose with their homilies and teachings and if called on the heresy or error they just lie and say they didn't say it,or they used it to point out an error and the "tattle tail" must have missed the explanation. They are liars and scoundrels and I wish they had to write out every word they speak.
53 posted on 06/30/2003 3:17:58 PM PDT by saradippity
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To: saradippity
Any priest who is striving to fulfill Christ's Great Cmmission to go out and baptize and teach all what He commanded them,is aware that it is impossible to serve two masters. Or more accurately,"you can't serve both a master and a mistress".

Better come up with something else. I can't get ahold of any of our priests unless somebody's dying. They're at a workshop, or doing a pastoral in-service somewhere. Our Hispanic associate needs to be taking remedial English classes somewhere, but he immerses himself in Spanish ministry every chance he gets.

And deacons, who are married and most of whom have full-time jobs, seem to be twice as available to do marriage preparation, or baptism prep, or preside at a wake service, or visit someone in the hospital.

Priests aren't available now. I don't see where having a wife would make them any less available.

54 posted on 06/30/2003 3:29:46 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
When has a priest ever made himself available recently to come and serve you or your family personally for anything other than a Baptism, Wedding, Serious Illness, or Funeral?

A few months ago, our priest offered to go to anyone's house who wanted to have their house blessed.

55 posted on 06/30/2003 3:42:02 PM PDT by B Knotts
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To: saradippity
The fact that your young Hispanic priest has to write out every word he delivers in his homilies is a gift from God.

Then I wish he would just copy them, and hand out the copies after the Gospel, sit down, and let us read for ten minutes.

56 posted on 06/30/2003 4:50:58 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: sinkspur
That is a great idea.
57 posted on 06/30/2003 4:54:49 PM PDT by saradippity
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To: sinkspur
Well,I think an end to the pastoral inservices and conferences and committee meetings all with each other should come to a halt.The only ones who are really excited about going are the "ones" who enjoy each others company so very much.

Actually, the need for this continuing education is a testimony to the crappy education provided in the seminaries. I have not noticed anything but the same old modernist interpretations of Catholic teaching and scripture following attendance at all these time consuming activities.

58 posted on 06/30/2003 6:29:58 PM PDT by saradippity
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
He does however advocate for married priests.
59 posted on 07/01/2003 11:59:51 AM PDT by WriteOn
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To: Hermann the Cherusker; sinkspur
I was being sarcastic, though it was lost on you.

As to disparaging stinky, he deserves it for preaching the benefits of a married priesthood in spite of the Pope.

If he's a deacon, he sure doesn't act like one.
60 posted on 07/01/2003 12:12:25 PM PDT by WriteOn
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