RECOVERING THE TRUTH & A COMING TO A CORRECT UNDERSTANDING OF JESUS

Bet Emet Ministries ^ | Unknown | Craig Lyons

[A_Thinker]

Two questions ...

1. What does it mean (to you) that Yeshua is God's only begotten son?

2. Why do you believe that the begetting of Yeshua occurred at his baptism (i.e. what supports this belief for you) ?

Before I answer these and since I've already answered a couple of your previous questions. What are your views concerning pre-existeance of Messiah?

I think I'm ready to present an answer to your query here ... (I wanted to check out my scriptural support first)

I believe that the following passage of scripture testifies to the pre-existence of the Messiah ...

Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

[thirdheavenward]

The Gospels are clearly the minimum core of inspired post-ressurection writings. They all agree with one another splendidly, and we know that there MUST be a body of scripture preserved by God, which reflects what Jesus did say, since, as God's premier prophet, God would not allow that core to perish, and would preserve it. So, to put it most simply, the other three Gospels testify to Luke, and their four-fold consistency proves that they are indeed the ones sent by God into our time which tell us of Jesus.

The aggreement of research, the early church fathers, the present church, and all times in between, show that it is appropriate to attribute the Gospels and other NT writings to the authors that they have always been attributed to.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

YHWH has always know His plan for Messiah. This scripture, again, doesn't prove Messiah is YHWH. Another retroactive reading. Why do you think the doctrine of the trinity wasn't required for salvation until 425 ad?

[ET(end tyranny)]

Ping to my #116

Sure, once you address my #115, and how the definitions show no indication of a triumvirate, or do you think Yahweh mispoke and meant trinity and He goofed and said ONE?

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Is Jehovah sending Himself? Who is Adonai Jehovah sending and who is this Jehovah that is being sent?

It reads to me like He's sending Isaiah.

[ksen]

We Trinitarians also believe God is One. He has one Essence and one being.

Now you said at the beginning of #115 in reference to the passage from Isaiah 48:16-17 that it is God the Father.

Was He describing sending Himself or someone else?

[ksen]

It reads to me like He's sending Isaiah.

That could be plausible, except for two things:

1.) He refers to himself as the "LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel", and
2.) In verses 12 and 13 where the same person is speaking he is called the "first and the last" and the one who "laid the foundations of the earth."

Isaiah was a great prophet, but he wasn't that great.

[Alex Murphy]

Though he may deny it, one of the most treacherous, bitterly anti-Paul and anti-New Testament, subtle, and deceitful sueEb hyena pack leaders is Craig Lyons of Bet Emet ministries. He lures people into his site presenting himself as a searching Christian, even as he condemns all things with the slightest scent of Christianity. He falsifies himself often as a Christian, even though he is actually a VERY stauch antiChristian, to disarm those previously mentioned whose faith is in a weakened state and who are looking for guidance. His methods are a textbook example of deception. This is yet one of many ways he uses subtlety and deception throughout his spider’s web-world of trickery. I never cease to be amazed at his shamelessness and treacherously hidden agenda. His teachings are a mirror image of the general sueEb principles; therefore, anything I say about them applies to him and vice versa. His specialty is boiling frogs.

Hey ET - what do you make of this? Isn't Craig Lyons' material the stuff you've been quoting here on FR?

[ET(end tyranny)]

You still haven't answered my question. Did Yahweh mispeak? Was there anything in those definitions that indicated a triumvirate?

A trinity mean three, NOT ONE.

[Pahuanui]

Do you every wonder how your cult fell upon a truth that has been missed by men more learned than you?

Ha! Have you ever wondered why most people in the world aren't Christians, learned or otherwise?

What's sauce for the goose....

[ksen]

No, Yahweh did not mispeak.

There was nothing in those definitions that indicated or contraindicated the Trinity as defined by most of Orthodox Christianity.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

I dunno. I went to that chapter and read it. Isaiah weaves in and out of speaking for the Lord and referring to himself.

[A_Thinker]

Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

YHWH has always known His plan for Messiah.

So ... you read this as speaking of the concept of Messiah, ... as opposed to the person of Messiah ?

... shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel ... "

This scripture, again, doesn't prove Messiah is YHWH.

I believe that this verse speaks to the Messiah's pre-existence, once again, ... not the whole of the argument for Messiah's deity.

Why do you think the doctrine of the trinity wasn't required for salvation until 425 ad?

I don't believe that belief in the Trinity is necessary for one to be saved.

I do, from my studies, believe that it is true ... but, I don't believe that it is necessary.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Hey 133 posts. You did well. :-)

[JesseShurun]

ET is of the anti-Christ, he thinks we didn't notice

[ksen]

I'm outta here for tonight.

I'll check back in tomorrow.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

I do, from my studies, believe that it is true ... but, I don't believe that it is necessary.

You're a breath of fresh air then. Most others have me burning in hell already. :-)

[ET(end tyranny)]

I've read quite a bit of his site over the years and have gotten ideas for posts from material at his site. I also have gotten information from the lexicon's, Greek and Hebrew. The lexicon having given me a better understanding of Paul, who indeed was bringing gentiles to Christ/Judaism.

Sometimes it does indeed pay to read other material than just the NT and just church approved material.

Oh, I also get the newsletters from Bet Emet, and think that a lot of people could learn a great deal from his site. If they are not afraid of the truth, that is.

His site raises questions and offers answers. He has quite a scholastic record, but you probably didn't look that far.

[ET(end tyranny)]

No, Yahweh did not mispeak.

Then perhaps we should take Him at His word, huh? He said, ONE.