Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

RECOVERING THE TRUTH & A COMING TO A CORRECT UNDERSTANDING OF JESUS
Bet Emet Ministries ^ | Unknown | Craig Lyons

Posted on 07/01/2003 10:22:12 AM PDT by ksen

RECOVERING THE TRUTH & A COMING TO A CORRECT UNDERSTANDING OF JESUS

Jesus and all his followers were Jews who were faithful to Biblical Judaism and never intended to separate from or start a new religion; after their deaths the Gentile Christian church will condemn the Jewish Christians as heretics...in time fruit of the Jewish Church (Gentile Christianity) will destroy it's mother

We have a unique paradox in Biblical history; one which touches every follower of Jesus yet today and which reaches to the very core of our own culture and time. It is impossible to understand Jesus or his message until we come to a correct understanding of the events that fashioned such persecution of the Jews by the Gentile believers and which contributed to the alteration of the faith of Jesus as can be found to have existed in the first century of Second Temple Judaism. As stated earlier the first and greatest division in the early church concerned the relationship of the followers of Jesus to Judaism; it shaped everything that was to follow. One of the greatest problems facing Christianity today is how to reconcile what it has become with G-d's intended vision for the Gentile nations of the world whereby they become part of the Israel of G-d and not "replace" it with a religion of their own creation. The answers for such a problem come only when one personally acquaints himself with an unbiased presentation of the facts of the tragic events of this part of Biblical history and traces the repercussions of such events down through the corridors of history and ultimately seeing the shock waves from them that are present in our own religious beliefs systems and cultures of today.

Today many scholars tell us the truth today about the early church and courageously break from "church traditions" and "mind control" to present the facts concerning these "events" and the corruption of the early faith of the historical Jesus by the Gentile "converts" who would later steer the direction of this "faith" throughout recorded history. It is so simple today to find this information, but sadly few look or even know the need to see if "they be in the faith." That being the case, we accept the "spin" of religious leaders down through history and the real message of Jesus is never heard, or at best, is overlooked for more "orthodox teachings" espoused which have taken it's place. Keith Akers, in his The Lost Religion of Jesus, states the case as well as any. Jewish Christianity consisted of those early Christians who followed the teachings of Jesus, as they understood him, and also remained loyal to the Jewish law of Moses as they understood it. Messianic Judaism was not to replace Judaism with a new faith; it was the goal and zenith for which the prophets wrote and hoped. This simple statement is of profound importance, because the Jewish Christians were eventually rejected both by orthodox Judaism and by orthodox Gentile Christianity. The understanding of the Jewish follower of Jesus was not that of orthodox Christianity (as it came to be where Jesus is seen more like the sun-g-dmen of the Gentile nations than a human messiah). Likewise the Jewish follower of Jesus possessed an understanding of the law of Moses that was the same as orthodox Judaism, but yet this view would later be rejected under the influence of Paul and his churches. Jerome's celebrated comment in the fourth century summarizes this dual rejection: "As long as they seek to be both Jews and Christians, they are neither Jews nor Christians" [Letter 112] (Akers, The Lost Religion of Jesus, p. 7).

The Jewish Christians considered Jesus to be the "true prophet" who would lead the people back to the eternal law that commanded simple living and nonviolence. They saw in Jesus their hopes for physical redemption and the fulfillment of the prophets. It was their hope that the Law would go forth from Zion with Jesus at its head as the long awaited Messiah and King of Israel. It was their hope that the enemies of Israel would be vanquished by the word of this anointed one of the LORD as taught in the Psalms of Solomon (no not the psalms you are familiar with but a separate Jewish books that was recognized by Jews as authoritative in the first century). The law, which was cherished by all G-dfearing Jews, had been given to Moses; indeed, it had existed from the beginning of the world, and was intended to be cherished and observed by both Jew and non-Jew alike because in the Commandments one finds the unique Covenant stipulations of his Covenant before G-d. In sharp contrast with the gentile Christian movement, which emerged in the wake of Paul's teaching, Jewish Christianity strove to make the Jewish law stricter than the Jewish tradition seemed to teach ("you have heard it said but I say unto you...'much more'"). Such was the Jesus' love for G-d and His Word. But this cannot be said for the Gentile churches which strove to find ways to lay aside the law for the laxity that was taught under the disguise of "grace." In other words, the non-Jews loved the large "gray areas" that came from the teaching of Paul and others who negated the Law through their own personal "revelations" and their own personal "gospels" (Paul is found saying in Rom 2:16 16: In the day when G-d shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel and again in 2 Tim 2:8 8: Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel). It is a little early in this article to address this concept but if you study continues you will reach a point in your understanding and knowledge where you will see beyond any doubt that the "gospel of Paul" replaced the "gospel of Jesus and Judaism."

Jewish Christianity is the blind spot in virtually all accounts of Jesus. Everyone agrees that Jesus was a Jew and that his initial followers were Jews. Yet of the thousands of books written about Jesus, almost none acknowledge the central importance of Jewish Christianity; at least until the end of the previous century and the beginning of the present one. That was true up until the latter part of the last century when Jewish, as well as European scholars began to reevaluate the Jewish Jesus and contrast the Historical Jesus with the Christ of Faith. There are many who are eager to focus specifically on the Jewishness of Jesus, until they get to the point of examining those of his followers who, like their teacher, were also Jewish, and in doing so see for themselves that actually nothing really changed within this community of the closest followers of Jesus until the early fourth century when Rome would effectively destroy the Jewish "followers of Jesus" by declaring them official heretics. The power of Rome would propagate a Gentile understanding and not a Jewish understanding of Jesus (see Constantine's Easter letter if you have any doubts).

The "Jewishness" of these early Christians does not refer to their ethnic group or nationality, but rather to their beliefs. Paul was a convert to Judaism (H. Maccoby, The Mythmaker, Paul And The Invention Of Christianity) and only later converted to Judaism; first a Sadducee, and after rejection by the Chief Priest he turned to the Pharisees, again only to be rejected by them for his prior cruelty to them as an agent of the Temple police who routed them out and killed them (the Messianic believing strict branch of the Pharisees called Nazarenes/Essenes). Paul also preaches freedom from the law and therefore explicitly rejects Jewish beliefs. Paul, and some of the other Jews who became Christians, renounced the law of Moses and, therefore, were not part of Jewish Christianity. The churches of Paul today (vast majority of Christianity as it exists today) lay outside the true faith of Jesus and will continue to do so unless they encounter the truth about this man of Galilee and the truth about their own religious history.

Without understanding Jewish Messianic Judaism or "intended Christianity", we cannot understand the historical Jesus let alone the earliest church nor the corruption of it within the New Testament correctly. Lacking this knowledge we are doomed to misinterpret most of what we read in the New Testament and our worship let alone our conduct will be in error...much of which is defined as sin in the Torah.


TOPICS: Apologetics; General Discusssion; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS:
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-200 ... 1,851-1,861 next last
According to this teaching, is Jesus the Saviour. Did Jesus die for our sins according to people who espouse these "teaching?"
1 posted on 07/01/2003 10:22:13 AM PDT by ksen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: RnMomof7; drstevej; CCWoody; Calvinist_Dark_Lord; Alex Murphy; Invincibly Ignorant; ...
Ping for your thoughts......
2 posted on 07/01/2003 10:24:33 AM PDT by ksen (HHD;FRM - Entmoot or Bust!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ksen
This could of been written by a freewheel baptist. :)

BigMack

3 posted on 07/01/2003 10:29:31 AM PDT by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: ksen
Gee, ksen, this screed is merely watered down milk compared to some of the stuff on that website.

For instance, these people advocate that vast chunks of the Bible are not true.

Woody.
4 posted on 07/01/2003 10:41:05 AM PDT by CCWoody
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ksen; JesseShurun
There's enough hogwash here to "purty-up" a plethora of piggies.
5 posted on 07/01/2003 10:42:11 AM PDT by drstevej
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ksen
According to this teaching, Jesus was a mere holy man who failed abysmally in His quest to establish an even stricter adherance to the law among Jews. First, He was destroyed by the Gentiles and then his good name was co-opted by the heretic Paul, who established a lawless, anti-semitic religion in His name.

It's a kind of post-Christian Ebionite revival. There are a number of our favorite freeple who adhere to it, as well. I predict they will be along any minute. :-)

6 posted on 07/01/2003 10:43:26 AM PDT by jboot (Faith is not a work)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: ksen
BTW, in almost (but not quite) every case, the reluctance to represent any divine name or title in print (i.e. "G-d") is a dead giveaway that the work you are reading is of Jewish rather than Christian origin.
7 posted on 07/01/2003 10:49:12 AM PDT by jboot (Faith is not a work)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: CCWoody
I just don't understand the mindset of people who can claim that, on the one hand, portions of the NT are corrupted, and on the other hand use the NT accounts of Jesus as proof of ANYTHING.

To my mind, if you cast doubt on some of the New Testament, then you cast doubt on the whole thing. Hard to figure out what people base their Christianity on if the New Testament is corrupted.

Disclaimer: I am not claiming the NT is corrupted.....

8 posted on 07/01/2003 10:49:48 AM PDT by ksen (HHD;FRM - Entmoot or Bust!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: ksen
To my mind, if you cast doubt on some of the New Testament, then you cast doubt on the whole thing. Hard to figure out what people base their Christianity on if the New Testament is corrupted.

Why does it have to be all or nothing? You've never cut a bad part off of a potato? If you dare read "the Orthodox Corruption of Scripture". Just a little proof for ya that when it came to the scibes disdain for adoptionists and adoptionists viewpoints that there were some scribal corruptions. No reason to throw out the rest of the highly reliabe NT writings.

10 posted on 07/01/2003 10:58:40 AM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: CCWoody; drstevej; jboot
And now a personal word from Pastor Lyons:

IS THE NEW TESTAMENT REALLY THE WORD OF GOD? DON'T ANSWER TOO QUICKLY......

As Christians and sincere individuals who, seeking to know and do the will of the Almighty, come to such knowledge concerning the tampering of the New Testament and the anti-Semitic agenda of its writers, you are quickly confronted with the most significant question you'll every have to answer in this life: is the New Testament really the Word of God?

I as well as you, most likely since childhood, have been assured by our spiritual leaders that the answer is "yes;" perhaps you have even had some emotional experiences which seem to validate your leaders' assurances while in church. I did. Don't mistake the love of God for His children as an approval for one's disobedience. As you know, though, true faith is based neither upon trust in men (Ps, 146:3), nor even upon occurrences of the supernatural (Deut. 13); nor can we trust our emotions as a barometer for truth.

And so, the question remains:

After having seen the misquotations, mistranslations, and the hundreds of Old Testament passages taken and used out of context on purpose by the New Testament writers...the question is even more alarming.....How can this perversion of the Old Testament be considered as coming from God and how can we in all honesty trust it unquestioningly; let alone believe it and accept it as reliable for faith and practice in many places?

What is of even more importance is that your eternal salvation is contingent upon the answer. Without your personal knowledge about such misquotations, mistranslations, and verses used out of context as contained in the New Testament, you cannot give an intelligent answer, only an emotional one. You might be sincere, but at the same time sincerely wrong and never know it until you die. Bet Emet Ministries makes available to you in this site valuable data, research, and information about such matters; offered in an attempt to help you find the truth about these issues in hopes such knowledge will allow you to make necessary changes in your beliefs and spiritual walk; thus a life more pleasing to God. We ask that you complete these studies in a spirit of earnestness and prayer, asking God to reveal to you His truth in the quietness of your own heart. As you do so, remember that you are a member of a kingdom of priests and a holy nation (Ex.19:6), described in the Scriptures as the "apple of God's eye" (Zech.2:8) and participants in an "everlasting covenant" (Gen. 17:7). As such, rest assured that God will indeed heed your request as you sincerely seek to discover His truth.


11 posted on 07/01/2003 10:59:59 AM PDT by ksen (HHD;FRM - Entmoot or Bust!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: ksen
What I want to know is which use of the word "Torah" is in effect here? It keeps being referred to, but it's never defined for the reader. "Torah" has a number of meanings in Jewish literature. Is it used to refer strictly to the Written Law (what we Christians would refer to as the Old Testament, especially the five books of Moses)? Or it it used to include both the Written Law as well as the Oral Law (Talmud)? Which one is held to be more authoritative over the other (Written or Oral)? Why?

Also, I'd like to know what this groups' take is on Rabbi Maimonides. Could the "Torah" being referred to here be his Mishneh Torah?

12 posted on 07/01/2003 11:02:32 AM PDT by Alex Murphy (Athanasius contra mundum!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Invincibly Ignorant
Man, you type fast!
13 posted on 07/01/2003 11:03:05 AM PDT by jboot (Faith is not a work)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: jboot
lol
14 posted on 07/01/2003 11:04:38 AM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: jboot
actually that was cut and pasted of the "Torah of Messiah" bulletin board.
15 posted on 07/01/2003 11:06:28 AM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: ksen; CCWoody; RnMomof7; Alex Murphy; Wrigley; OrthodoxPresbyterian; the_doc; Jean Chauvin; ...
13) Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, weherein dwelleth righteousness.
14) Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be dilligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot and blameless.
15) And account that the long-suffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction
17) Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness.
II Peter 3:13-17, KJV Emhpasis by Calvinist_Dark_Lord

There is no point in debating with fools. The bible, the Word of God is not negotiable. God does not care if you believe it to be so or not, one is still accountable to it. These crazys have nothing to say to us, THERE IS NOTHING TO "DISCUSS" except maybe their repentence.

CALVINIST SWARM>-
STING PING
16 posted on 07/01/2003 11:06:28 AM PDT by Calvinist_Dark_Lord ("I have come here to kick @$$ and chew bubblegum...and I'm all outta bubblegum!" -Roddy Piper;)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Invincibly Ignorant
Thanks for the tidbit about Craig Lyons. I take it you don't consider yourself in his camp?
17 posted on 07/01/2003 11:06:40 AM PDT by ksen (HHD;FRM - Entmoot or Bust!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: ksen
Thanks for the tidbit about Craig Lyons. I take it you don't consider yourself in his camp?

That's correct.

18 posted on 07/01/2003 11:09:10 AM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Invincibly Ignorant
Phew! There for a minute, I thought you were downright unnatural.
19 posted on 07/01/2003 11:09:38 AM PDT by jboot (Faith is not a work)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

Comment #20 Removed by Moderator

To: Invincibly Ignorant; ksen
To my mind, if you cast doubt on some of the New Testament, then you cast doubt on the whole thing.

I agree, ksen! If it is "not all", as Invincibly has suggested by stating "Why does it have to be all or nothing? ", then which one of you will tell me "authoritatively" that what I am reading is the "word of God".

21 posted on 07/01/2003 11:13:12 AM PDT by ThomasMore
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Invincibly Ignorant
In a nutshell, the doctrine of hereditary sin teaches we are born with INHERITED sin. It teaches that at birth a baby is despicably wicked and full of sin, which includes the "original sin" in the Garden of Eden! It makes each of us accountable for the sins of all our ancestors and considers sin a hereditary trait.

I think that guy better look in a different nutshell, because he picked up the wrong one.

22 posted on 07/01/2003 11:20:50 AM PDT by ksen (HHD;FRM - Entmoot or Bust!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: ThomasMore
I agree, ksen! If it is "not all", as Invincibly has suggested by stating "Why does it have to be all or nothing? ", then which one of you will tell me "authoritatively" that what I am reading is the "word of God".

I'll go one step further than that. By what standard do detractors determine which portions are true (or correctly translated, or contain the "true events", etc etc etc), and which are false/mistranslated/made up? How do those standards hold up when applied to more ancient manuscripts of the same works?

23 posted on 07/01/2003 11:23:48 AM PDT by Alex Murphy (Athanasius contra mundum!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: ThomasMore; ksen
I agree, ksen! If it is "not all", as Invincibly has suggested by stating "Why does it have to be all or nothing? ", then which one of you will tell me "authoritatively" that what I am reading is the "word of God".

I suggest we do like the Bereans and let the Tenhak tell us what's authoritative and what's not.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

The scriptures they were searching certainly weren't orthodox NT scriptures.

24 posted on 07/01/2003 11:24:54 AM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Alex Murphy
I'll go one step further than that. By what standard do detractors determine which portions are true (or correctly translated, or contain the "true events", etc etc etc), and which are false/mistranslated/made up? How do those standards hold up when applied to more ancient manuscripts of the same works?

See number 24.

25 posted on 07/01/2003 11:25:48 AM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Invincibly Ignorant
Stephen,

Did you ever think you would stop thinking Jesus is God a year ago?

What makes you think that in another year you won't be denying the New Testament is God's Word and posting portions of Craig Lyons' web site for supporting info?
26 posted on 07/01/2003 11:31:10 AM PDT by ksen (HHD;FRM - Entmoot or Bust!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Invincibly Ignorant
Though he may deny it, one of the most treacherous, bitterly anti-Paul and anti-New Testament, subtle, and deceitful sueEb hyena pack leaders is Craig Lyons of Bet Emet ministries. He lures people into his site presenting himself as a searching Christian, even as he condemns all things with the slightest scent of Christianity. He falsifies himself often as a Christian, even though he is actually a VERY stauch antiChristian, to disarm those previously mentioned whose faith is in a weakened state and who are looking for guidance. His methods are a textbook example of deception. This is yet one of many ways he uses subtlety and deception throughout his spider’s web-world of trickery. I never cease to be amazed at his shamelessness and treacherously hidden agenda. His teachings are a mirror image of the general sueEb principles; therefore, anything I say about them applies to him and vice versa. His specialty is boiling frogs. More on this later.

Steve do you understand that most of us here do not think he is anymore lost than you are...different branches of the same doctrinally corrupt tree.

27 posted on 07/01/2003 11:33:03 AM PDT by RnMomof7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Invincibly Ignorant
Why does it have to be all or nothing? You've never cut a bad part off of a potato? If you dare read "the Orthodox Corruption of Scripture". Just a little proof for ya that when it came to the scibes disdain for adoptionists and adoptionists viewpoints that there were some scribal corruptions. No reason to throw out the rest of the highly reliabe NT writings.

Once you deny the inerrency of any portion of scripture you cast the total of it into doubt. It becomes every man picking and choosing what they want to believe..

Either the Holy Spirit inspired the entire text and preserved the text or none of it is worth anything

28 posted on 07/01/2003 11:36:41 AM PDT by RnMomof7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: ksen
Here is an example of the duplicity of people who attempt to use the NT after they have declared it to be corrupt:

ksen ~ I am... claiming the NT is corrupted.....

Note how I make you say the exact opposite of what you actually said. These people are just as shallow in their arguments.

Woody.
29 posted on 07/01/2003 11:43:24 AM PDT by CCWoody
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: ksen
What makes you think that in another year you won't be denying the New Testament is God's Word and posting portions of Craig Lyons' web site for supporting info?

What makes you think you won't? Go ahead. Attack my credibility because I realize what I've believed for 30 years to be error. What would have me do? Not act upon it? That would be hypocritical. Yeshua's creed was the "Shema". "The Lord our God is One". The great delusion is that millions worship the created instead of the Creator. Sorry, I've left that camp with no apologies. I encourage you to refute with facts instead of lame attempts to cast dispersions on one's stability. You're better than that.

30 posted on 07/01/2003 11:43:47 AM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: RnMomof7
Once you deny the inerrency of any portion of scripture you cast the total of it into doubt. It becomes every man picking and choosing what they want to believe..

Either the Holy Spirit inspired the entire text and preserved the text or none of it is worth anything

Just because it tilts your feeble brain. I assure you I can handle it. I can say on one hand you disdain papacy, apostolic succession, pepetual virginity of Mary, etc., etc.. But you're right there to defend counsels of Binatarianism and Trinity. All or nothing sweetie.

31 posted on 07/01/2003 11:46:42 AM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: RnMomof7
Steve do you understand that most of us here do not think he is anymore lost than you are...different branches of the same doctrinally corrupt tree.

Sure I understand that. I'd actually be worried if you thought I was saved.

32 posted on 07/01/2003 11:47:50 AM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Alex Murphy; ThomasMore
I'll go one step further than that. By what standard do detractors determine which portions are true (or correctly translated, or contain the "true events", etc etc etc), and which are false/mistranslated/made up? How do those standards hold up when applied to more ancient manuscripts of the same works?

Exactly

We see an attack on the credibility of scripture from all the lost. That is WHY they are lost.

33 posted on 07/01/2003 11:52:40 AM PDT by RnMomof7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: CCWoody; ksen; RnMomof7; Calvinist_Dark_Lord
These people are just as shallow in their arguments.

Maybe so! Yet, Invincibly Ignorant AKA Steven, has raised a point (even though he is apostate to the Christian faith) that every one of us who believe in the absolute inerrancy of the NT have to ask ourselves. How do we know that all 27 books and no more and no less are the inerrant word of God and the scores of other writings bearing Apostolic names are not?

Why are we right and Invincibly wrong?

34 posted on 07/01/2003 11:56:20 AM PDT by ThomasMore
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Invincibly Ignorant
Are you saying you believe or agree with this screed? Or are you just quoting from another (unreferenced) source?
35 posted on 07/01/2003 11:56:33 AM PDT by nobdysfool (Let God be true, and every man a liar...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: RnMomof7
We see an attack on the credibility of scripture from all the lost. That is WHY they are lost.

That's one thing those good for nothing Catholics got right. /sarcasm. Those scribes might have messed up on their Marian theology, purgatory, and indulgences but by golly they certainly let God guide their pen without error.

36 posted on 07/01/2003 11:57:33 AM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: nobdysfool
whats a screed?
37 posted on 07/01/2003 11:58:07 AM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Invincibly Ignorant; RnMomof7
whats a screed?

Alright, I'll state it plainly: toilet paper.

Actually in reading other posts, I've already got the answer to my questions. I have neither the time, or inclination to deal with willfully deceived, and spiritually ignorant junk such as what was posted. The diatribe against Calvinism is, rather than an indictment of it, clear proof that Total Depravity exists, and the author is a prime example of it.

38 posted on 07/01/2003 12:03:20 PM PDT by nobdysfool (Let God be true, and every man a liar...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: nobdysfool
I have neither the time, or inclination to deal with willfully deceived,

Pot & Kettle alert.

39 posted on 07/01/2003 12:09:03 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Invincibly Ignorant; ksen
What makes you think you won't? Go ahead. Attack my credibility because I realize what I've believed for 30 years to be error. What would have me do? Not act upon it? That would be hypocritical. Yeshua's creed was the "Shema". "The Lord our God is One". The great delusion is that millions worship the created instead of the Creator. Sorry, I've left that camp with no apologies. I encourage you to refute with facts instead of lame attempts to cast dispersions on one's stability. You're better than that.

Steve your heresy is nothing new to the church. It is not some grand "discovery" . I do not think you ever has a born again experience , or you would know that Jesus is God the Son. You would not be blown around with every wind of doctrine. I quote the words of John.

1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

You have been wandering around looking for a religion that would satisfy you , not the truth .

I agree with Kevin. Today it is this and tomorrow it will be something else.

I do not say that to you to be unkind, I would like you to consider the source of the book you read and then consider the scholarship of the men in the church councils that decried those heresies.The Shema proves the trinity to one that has open eyes

40 posted on 07/01/2003 12:09:03 PM PDT by RnMomof7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Invincibly Ignorant
Just because it tilts your feeble brain. I assure you I can handle it. I can say on one hand you disdain papacy, apostolic succession, pepetual virginity of Mary, etc., etc.. But you're right there to defend counsels of Binatarianism and Trinity. All or nothing sweetie.

You are tossing together tradition and scripture. The trinity is an eternal truth , taught even in the OT .

41 posted on 07/01/2003 12:11:39 PM PDT by RnMomof7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: RnMomof7
Steve your heresy is nothing new to the church. It is not some grand "discovery" . I do not think you ever has a born again experience , or you would know that Jesus is God the Son. You would not be blown around with every wind of doctrine. I quote the words of John.

Actually I know that Yeshua is the Son of God. Jesus is your anti-Messiah god. You worship the created instead of the Creator. That is the delusion in the world.

1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

This scripture describes you well. You have been wandering around looking for a religion that would satisfy you , not the truth .

Truth? You can't handle the truth. lol.

I agree with Kevin. Today it is this and tomorrow it will be something else.

I pray that YHWH will never cease opening my eyes.

I do not say that to you to be unkind,

You wouldn't know what the word "kind" means.

I would like you to consider the source of the book you read and then consider the scholarship of the men in the church councils that decried those heresies.The Shema proves the trinity to one that has open eyes

I would advise you to become more familiar with "Shema", "Elohim", & "Echad". As a matter of fact I think I'll just go ahead and post the article for your enlightenment.

http://www.torahofmessiah.com/elohim.html

42 posted on 07/01/2003 12:15:06 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: ThomasMore
Yet, Invincibly Ignorant AKA Steven, has raised a point (even though he is apostate to the Christian faith) that every one of us who believe in the absolute inerrancy of the NT have to ask ourselves. How do we know that all 27 books and no more and no less are the inerrant word of God and the scores of other writings bearing Apostolic names are not?

Ooh Ooh, I know! Pick me, pick me!

(Course, everyone won't be happy with the answer. LOL)

SD

43 posted on 07/01/2003 12:15:23 PM PDT by SoothingDave
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: RnMomof7
You are tossing together tradition and scripture. The trinity is an eternal truth , taught even in the OT .

Sorry your wrong. Its a truth read retroactively back into scripture. Read that article.

44 posted on 07/01/2003 12:16:29 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: SoothingDave
(Course, everyone won't be happy with the answer. LOL)

Ok. I select you. Go for it. :-)

45 posted on 07/01/2003 12:17:15 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: ThomasMore; ksen; CCWoody; RnMomof7; Wrigley; OrthodoxPresbyterian; the_doc; Jean Chauvin; ...
Maybe so! Yet, Invincibly Ignorant AKA Steven, has raised a point (even though he is apostate to the Christian faith) that every one of us who believe in the absolute inerrancy of the NT have to ask ourselves. How do we know that all 27 books and no more and no less are the inerrant word of God and the scores of other writings bearing Apostolic names are not?

And more to the point -

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

What was "the word" they received? From whom? What did they do with it, once they'd searched the scriptures (and found it was "so", or "no so")?

The contents of the New Testament, more specifically the Gospels and some (all?) of the successive letters would have been that "word". They survive, in so many accurately transmitted manuscripts, because the Bereans - and those like them - did as the Scriptures say. They searched the scriptures. I believe this is what Ignorant refers to (badly mispelled) as the Tenhak (it should be spelled Tanakh).

They found them so. The texts survived, were copied faithfully, and only later assembled into a single canon. But they were held as scripture, since they came from first-hand witnesses to the Resurrection and were in agreement with the Written Law, long before then.

46 posted on 07/01/2003 12:17:21 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (Athanasius contra mundum!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Invincibly Ignorant; RnMomof7
good for nothing Catholics

I've been called a lot of things, but from an apostate and a heretic, this is new! :^)

47 posted on 07/01/2003 12:18:20 PM PDT by ThomasMore
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Invincibly Ignorant
"Those scribes" were Matthew, Mark, Luke John, Paul, Peter, James, and Jude. Those men were not Roman Catholic.
48 posted on 07/01/2003 12:19:36 PM PDT by ksen (HHD;FRM - Entmoot or Bust!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Alex Murphy
What was "the word" they received? From whom?

The message of the Gospel. From Paul and Silas. Do you think they were traveling with scrolls? Lol.

10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.

11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

49 posted on 07/01/2003 12:22:51 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: ksen
"Those scribes" were Matthew, Mark, Luke John, Paul, Peter, James, and Jude. Those men were not Roman Catholic.

Please. Catholics will even tell you that not all the words in these Gospels are attributed to the authors.

50 posted on 07/01/2003 12:24:03 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-200 ... 1,851-1,861 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson