U.S. Priests and seminarians survey: more vocations in orthodox dioceses

AD 2000 ^ | August 1998

[TradicalRC]

If reality is a flaw, then this analysis is indeed flawed.

Why WOULDN'T progressive and conservative diocese reflect the culture around them? The old saw about getting the kind of government we deserve also applies to churches. The culture produces what it will with an unflinching austere logic. We as individuals may happily compartmentalize various aspects of our life but as societies we seldom if ever do so. The hard logic of ideas, paradigms and mores works its way through nations and cultures and pointing out this or that individual that will not succumb to it is to point out the exceptions that prove the rule.

[american colleen]

Thanks for the informative post. Much to consider!

The progressives really cowed him, it seems. I don't know the higher level stuff that you have encountered (no one except FR has ever published a thing I've written!) but I know what it is like out here in the trenches because I've lived in quite a few different places since I was a kid - and have attended many parishes over the years.

What I saw in Cardinal Law was that he was quite tolerant of dissenters - maybe thinking that his words and leadership (but they had undermined it long ago and Law never generated the love of the laity here like a Cushing did - Law was perceived as a pomp and circumstance kind of guy instead of a loving father) would bring them to see the light. But he compromised so much that he had no credibility - and as you say, he let the chancery be staffed with the underminers.

Right now my parish is running a program out of the archdiocese - an Adult Faith Formation thing on the basics of Catholicism. I like to support the parish and the chancery, but anything coming out of the chancery right now is dodgy in my mind - who knows who is teaching it and if they are Catholics in union with the Magisterium - from other priests and nuns going around teaching the laity, I doubt it. So I'll save that $90 I would have spent on the program and sent it to Fr. Fessio, Mother Angelica and a missionary priest out of India who visited our parish a couple of weeks ago. And read the Bible and catechism on my own.

I didn't send a dime to the Catholic University of America this past Sunday in the collection envelope - and won't send them a penny until I know they are "kosher" - that $20 went to Fr. Fessio and Ave Maria down in Florida.

[TradicalRC]

Progressives always seem to say things like "he is medeival" or "he has a perfect twelfth century mind" as though it were an insult. I doubt if any of them could hold a candle to those great minds of the medeival era. It was a time when philosophy was considered the handmaiden of theology and some of the greatest spiritual architecture, music and art were given to the world.

Alas, the world is more given to pursue novelties rather than glimpse eternity.

[american colleen]

You guys are better at this than I am. Until I found all the Catholic info on the Internet a few years ago (3 ?) I had no idea about all the behind the scenes stuff. I was walking around still dazed and baffled by what had and what was still happening at the parish level. Felt that way since I was about 14 or 15.

Ya know, sometimes I think I was better off back then! ;-)

The inclusive language... it changes the meaning of the main idea sometimes and sometimes it is just bs... like my parish priest during Lent last year... a few times he had to lead the Stations of the Cross and he says "Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with YOU" (instead of THEE) it's just annoying because it's pointless - like why bother. He was the only one using the more modern language, though. And most of the parishioners were younger than he is.

PS - wasn't the inclusive language thing - that those bishops went to Rome to see the pope about - regarding the Catechism (which was originally Law's idea, I think) and not the stuff associated with the ICEL?

[old and tired]

**Imagine that! What Priest shortage crisis? Go Philly! **

We have been blessed with transitional deacons in our parish for the last three years. Each one has been absolutely wonderful.

I think these men coming in their 30's and 40's really are confident of their vocations - they've had relationships with women and realize they are not being called to the married life. The last one often spoke from the altar on the importance of prayer in our lives and avoiding the near occasion of sin. The last two have volunteered to hand out pro-life materials and voters' guides after mass with our pro-life group. We'll see about this latest one -there hasn't been an opportunity yet, but he hasn't missed a single meeting!

I pray that Rigali does not let sodomites into our wonderful seminary. He has refused to go on record one way or the other.

[american colleen]

Alas, the world is more given to pursue novelties rather than glimpse eternity.

There sure are a lot of people who like change for the sake of change, aren't there. Makes them feel relevent and up to date, I guess.

It's sort of germaine to the society in which we live maybe. Always entertained, 200 cable stations, organized sports all the time for the kids, malls with a hundred different stores, lots of subjects taught at school so any one particular subject can't be taught in depth and you can't sit still or stay home for long.

[ThomasMore]

I've told you before, Hermann, but for the sake of others...

I come from a small but very orthodox parish. Fruits of labors that began in 1990 are abundant. We have ordained six men, five to the priesthood and one to the permanent diaconate (over the past six years) with two more to be ordained to the priesthood in the next three years. If every parish was doing this there would be absolutely no shortage of clergy in the Church. There are many vocations to Holy Orders but we are not cultivating the fields for harvest. BTW, all these clergy I mentioned are very orthodox and faithful to Mother Church.

[american colleen]

The Force is with you! ;-)

Thanks for all your work, wish I lived closer so I could send my kids to your parish school and attend Mass in a parish where I don't worry about having to clear up the dodgy stuff after Mass or (before I yanked them out) from the CCD classes.

Yesterday's homily lamented the fact that the taxes have been cut so much (and the priest actually said "read my lips - no new taxes" in a sarcastic manner) that families have to dish out $65 to enroll their kids in baseball.

OY!

[american colleen]

Ah yes, that would be the indult Mass that there is very little demand for, right?

I know you are being tongue and cheek, but I don't think there is a big demand for the indult because people don't know it's available. If they do (must be word of mouth because I'd never heard it mentioned until a couple of years ago when Bostonian FReeper told me where it was) it is a hard parish to get to - in a tough area of Boston.

Plus the indult (Tridentine or Latin) has been disparaged over the years by a lot of priests. I've heard "when they said Mass and you couldn't understand it" or "the priest has his back to the people" (never, ever explaining that everyone faced east together) or "that Mass is from the dark ages" and stuff similar to that. Just a subtle (and not so subtle) undermining.

A few months ago I attended an incredibly orthodox NO Mass - said by the book by a very orthodox, newly ordained priest. Everything was as it should be according to the GIRM and the Vat II documents except the music was the banal, modern stuff like "On Eagles Wings" and "One Bread One Body" "And I will raise you up" (forget the correct name of that song) etc. When we were leaving, I bumped into someone my age (44) and I remarked on how reverent and holy the Mass was and too bad that the music wasn't in tune with the Mass. She said that she thought the music was great because it reminded her of her father's funeral Mass. I realized that she probably hasn't heard the more traditional stuff in so long that she forgets and she thinks that the stuff they use in most parishes (around here - Haugen and co.) is actually traditional.

Not sure what point I'm trying to make, but it seems that anything traditonal is almost swept under the rug like families used to do years ago when a someone in your family did something scandalous.

[ArrogantBustard]

- Indult granted to at least one parish

Not reliable. The Dreadful Diocese of Richmond (Virginia) has two Indult Parishes; fully sponsored by the Diocese. One is in Chesapeake, the other in the belly of the beast: Richmond. The DDR is also home to some of the weirdest liturgical abuses and aggressively ugly "worship spaces" I have ever witnessed.

[ArrogantBustard]

Baltimore (Mt. St. Michael)

That would be Mount St. Mary's, in Emmittsburg Md. There's also a "St. Mary's Seminary", in Baltimore. Michael S. Rose had a few interesting (and derogatory) things to say about it.

[sitetest]

Dear Hermann,

Mount St. Mary's is shared by the Archdioceses of Baltimore and Washington.

Most of our diocesan seminaries in Washington who go to seminary locally go to the Mount. Our Knights of Columbus Council recently gave them a donation to help expand their facilities to accommodate more seminarians. ;-)


sitetest

[ThomasMore]

Father Benedict Groeschel has said numerous times we are in a post Christian era. The heterodoxy we see and hear in the Church is a result of many years of attacks by modernists. This didn't just start with V2, it has been with us a very long time, battled by the likes of Pope Leo XIII and Pope St. Pius X.

I and all of our parishioners are blessed; Presently. And I am one who would not kid myself or be so naive as to believe that this blessed state couldn't be removed. Our blessed situation could change overnight by the removal of our present pastor only to be replaced by some heterodox nutcase. We had one of those and many, including myself, suffered for seven years with his progressive heterodox ideals and abusively intolerant liberal behaviors.

But then again, any new pastor  would have to deal with me. ;^)
(my pastor is planning in two years to petition the bishop to remain for another six years, so this may be a moot issue.)

You ought to come down to Westerly for a visit, AC! It's a beautiful little coastal town. With most of the tourists gone home for the summer, right now is a good time to come.

PS: The work I do as a deacon is sheer pleasure. Oh yeah, there are some parts that are drudgery but that is typical of everything. I love being a deacon. The grace of Holy Orders that comes through the ontological change at ordination makes all the difference. It has nothing to do with me, although I graciously accept your compliment, yet has everything to do with the Holy Spirit and God's superabundant grace!  For years before I was ordained and even now I've prayed the following prayer.  I get to Church 45 minutes or so before mass and do my office of readings and then spend time before the Blessed Sacrament where the following litany becomes one of my sources of petition.

LITANY OF HUMILITY

(accustomed to be said after celebration of Mass,
by Merry Cardinal del Val, secretary of state to
Pope Saint Pius X)

(for private use only)

O Jesus, meek and humble of heart,
Hear me.

From the desire of being esteemed,
Deliver me, O Jesus.
From the desire of being loved,
Deliver me, O Jesus.
From the desire of being extolled,
Deliver me, O Jesus.
From the desire of being honored,
Deliver me, O Jesus.
From the desire of being praised,
Deliver me, O Jesus.
From the desire of being preferred to others,
Deliver me, O Jesus.
From the desire of being consulted,
Deliver me, O Jesus.
From the desire of being approved,
Deliver me, O Jesus.

From the fear of being humiliated,
Deliver me, O Jesus.
From the fear of being despised,
Deliver me, O Jesus.
From the fear of suffering rebukes,
Deliver me, O Jesus.
From the fear of being calumniated,
Deliver me, O Jesus.
From the fear of being forgotten,
Deliver me, O Jesus.
From the fear of being ridiculed,
Deliver me, O Jesus.
From the fear of being wronged,
Deliver me, O Jesus.
From the fear of being suspected,
Deliver me, O Jesus.

That others may be loved more than I,
Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.
That others may be esteemed more than I,
Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.
That, in the opinion of the world,
others may increase and I may decrease,
Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.
That others may be chosen and I set aside,
Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.
That others may be praised and I go unnoticed,
Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.
That others may be preferred to me in everything,
Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.
That others may become holier than I,
provided that I may become as holy as I should,
Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.

God Bless you and your family AC,

TM

[Maximilian]

PS - wasn't the inclusive language thing - that those bishops went to Rome to see the pope about - regarding the Catechism (which was originally Law's idea, I think) and not the stuff associated with the ICEL?

It was the Lectionary used for readings at Mass.

[Hermann the Cherusker]

You should go visit Fr. Abbott Gabriel at Still River every so often to refresh yourself. They have a by the books novus Ordo at 7:30 or 8:00 and the novus Ordo in Latin at 11:00. Plus there is breakfast.

[Hermann the Cherusker]

The ethnic parishes are hardly much different from American oens for the most part, unless there is an active immigrant community (usually, there is not) necessitating use of a foreign language. Philly still has tons of Polish, Italian, Slovak, Lithuanian, and German parishes. But you'd hardly know it from going in any of them.

As to parish closings, this is a vital necessity in places where the faithful have fled the parish (like Roxbury in Boston or North Philly in Philadelphia). There's no point wasting a Priest on 300 parishoners when 10,000 parishoners elsewhere are having to make do with just two Priests.