No logic behind this marry leap (Fr. Andrew Greeley)

Chicago Sun Times ^ | October 10, 2003 | Fr. Andrew Greeley

[american colleen]

Sometimes Greeley is really clear headed - it's his novels that throw me.

I am in the midst of reading Greeley's 1971 "Priests in the United States" and I was surprised to find Greeley a stauch defender of the celibate priesthood and a critic of the jettisoning of many of the traditional Catholic teachings/education - particularly in the seminaries (almost to a one) that occurred in the late 50s and in the 1960s.

If you can get your hands on a copy of this book, it is quite in depth and well researched.

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[american colleen]

For your reading pleasure ;-)

Gotta run for a coupla hours... be back later.

Don't forget that Cardinal Arinze is on "World Over Live" at 8 PM EST tonight. You can listen and watch on the Internet if you don't have EWTN on your cable lineup.

[Salvation]

**Hence it was ''cheap grace'' -- grace that was easy to earn but had no impact on anything or anybody.**

BTTT!

[sitetest]

Thanks.

[ArrogantBustard]

Greeley wrote that?!?!?! Wow. Amazing. I didn't see anything in there I disagree with.

[saradippity]

I've always been a half out of the closet Greeley fan. I am glad he printed something totally,unequivicably Catholic that I can print and give to acquaintances who have taken issue with some of my positive comments about him.

I heard him defend chaste celibacy in an interview on the Art Bell show about five years ago,but since no one I know listens to Art Bell,nor me for that matter,my support has been like whistling in the wind.

I think he confuses people because he just may be a moral conservative and a fiscal liberal,maybe the inside out of Arnold,who seems to be a moral libertine and a fiscal conservative. Not sure,but I think I am on to something there,who knows?

In any case,thanks for the article!!

[Desdemona]

How often do you deny baptism to the children of people who are not registered or have not contributed to the parish? How often do you refuse to baptize the children of those who are not married in the church?

I actually know people to whom this happened. I didn't realize it was a violation.

[Loyalist]

PING

Andrew Greeley writes something for a change that shouldn't be on the Index Librorium Prohibitum or in a plain brown wrapper.

[ninenot]

Of course, Greeley could have written another rather insightful article pointing out that certain Bishops seem to have extraordinary problems attracting vocations--while others have them flocking to their doorsteps.

But that's another story.

Nice article, although some of his questions leave me a bit cold, e.g., "...how much money....creating good liturgy?"

Psssst: Andy: it's been created. It's called the Roman Missal.

[TheCrusader]

Greely sums up: "I am not necessarily opposed to a change in the celibacy requirement."

True to the new-age Church mentality, the long 'orthodox' statement ends up watered down at the end.

[sinkspur]

Greely sums up: "I am not necessarily opposed to a change in the celibacy requirement."

He's not opposed to women priests either.

Greeley likes celibacy because he's a bachelor, with apartments in Chicago and Phoenix (and God knows where else).

For all his sexy fiction, he knows good and well that there's not a woman in the world who could live with him.

He's so damn weird.

[sinkspur]

Some parishes have policies that a child will not be baptized in a family that doesn't attend Mass.

The rationale is that the child has little chance of being brought up Catholic, and to baptize reinforces the idea that sacraments are magical conveniences.

[american colleen]

He's not opposed to women priests either.

I think Greeley ticks off and delights the progs and the trads and everyone in between equally, but I have never read where he states he's open to women priests... can you give a link or a book where you've read this?

Greeley likes celibacy because he's a bachelor, with apartments in Chicago and Phoenix (and God knows where else).

Just those two places, from what I've read - he does teach in Chicago and Phoenix, so I would assume he needs a place to stay depending on where he is at the moment.

For all his sexy fiction, he knows good and well that there's not a woman in the world who could live with him.

Well, he's obviously smarter and more self aware than most men! ;-) Have you read that he's said the above somewhere or is this off the top of your head?

[sinkspur]

Have you read that he's said the above somewhere or is this off the top of your head?

Off the point on the top of my head.

I heard Greeley on Phil Donahue ten years ago say that he saw no reason to exclude women from the priesthood.

He might have changed his mind since then.

[saradippity]

His apartment is not in Phoenix,he teaches at the University of Arizona and he lives down in Tucson.

[saradippity]

Well,I would say it's more because the Amchurch doesn't believe in Original Sin they see no need to baptize.You know,sin?What's that?

[sinkspur]

Well,I would say it's more because the Amchurch doesn't believe in Original Sin they see no need to baptize.You know,sin?What's that?

What about marriage? You think the Church ought to just marry anybody who shows up at the office door?

Canon Law says they should.

[LadyDoc]

greeley is wearing his sociologist's hat in this study. YOu see, despite certain chicago ex priests stating that priests are immature etc etc. Greeley has the actual data, showing most priests are no more immature than the average American man.

and if you read his X rated novels, you will notice that the priest, by their celibacy, are more valuable to those around them.

And knowing how he portrays prayer, liturgy, and God's love in his novels, I am happy that he is willing to tell his Chicago readers that prayer etc. is more important than being PC...

(Greeley says his sociological studies show that couples who pray together have a better sex life. I didn't read the data, but it works for me....)

[american colleen]

He makes a very good case (theologically and socially) for celibacy in pieces that he's written (like the book I am reading now "Priests in the United States") but he doesn't believe celibacy is intrinsic to the Catholic priesthood and he wouldn't have a problem if the Church changed it.