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The FReeper Foxhole Studies the M-1 "Garand" Rifle - November 17th, 2003
see educational sources

Posted on 11/17/2003 3:30:47 AM PST by snippy_about_it


Keep our Troops forever in Your care

Give them victory over the enemy...

Grant them a safe and swift return...

Bless those who mourn the lost.

FReepers from the Foxhole join in prayer
for all those serving their country at this time.

...................................................................................... ...........................................

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M-1 Garand

Semi-automatic .30 Caliber Rifle

The M1, or Garand rifle as it came to be known after the name of its inventor, John Garand, held many advantages over the M1903 Springfield rifle. The semi-automatic operation and reduced recoil allowed new troops to achieve a higher degree of accuracy with a shorter period of training than was previously possible. The sighting system was superior under actual combat conditions.

Ease of disassembly, cleaning, and oiling were also a great advantage. Most important was the increase in rate of fire, limited only by the proficiency of the soldier in marksmanship and his dexterity in inserting eight round clips of ammunition into the weapon. In the face of overwhelming odds, the capability of the M1 rifle to deliver superior firepower would most often carry the day.

The first production M1 was successfully proof fired, function fired, and fired for accuracy on July 21, 1937. Thus began manufacture of what was to become the greatest production effort in the history of Springfield Armory. During the entire production history of the M1 rifle, Springfield Armory produced over 4.5 million M1s.

General Douglas MacArthur reported on the M1 to the Ordnance Department during heavy fighting on Bataan that: "Under combat conditions it operated with no mechanical defects and when used in foxholes did not develop stoppages from dust or dirt. It has been in almost constant action for as much as a week without cleaning or lubrication."

General George S. Patton Jr. reported to the Ordnance Department on January 26, 1945: "In my opinion, the M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised."

The M1 rifle was described in military manuals as "a gas-operated, clip-fed, air-cooled, semi-automatic shoulder weapon." The design incorporated a spring-loaded piston operating within a gas cylinder mounted on the end of the barrel. Gas was fed through a gas port in the barrel to a fixture mounted at the muzzle of the barrel. As the bullet passed this point, exiting the barrel, the compressed gas behind it flowed down a port to the piston.

The piston drove a 16-inch operating rod to the rear where a cam on the back of the operating rod unlocked a two lug rotary bolt and then carried the bolt to the rear of the receiver. The operating rod, a hollow tube, contained a spring which resisted rearward movement. The spring, in turn, exerted pressure on the follower rod which operated the feeding mechanism of the weapon. Upon firing of the last cartridge, the clip was automatically ejected.

The M1, designed by John C. Garand, was the standard issue military rifle used by the U.S. Army from 1936 to 1957, when it was replaced by the lighter M14 rifle. The M1 was one of the first semi-automatic rifles to see action in combat. It offered a great improvement in fire power over the bolt-action M1903 series rifle it replaced. It was rugged, reliable, and tolerant to the abuses of use in the field. The rifle used .30-06 cal. cartridges in eight-round clips.

The M1C and M1D were sniper versions of the M1 Garand. The two models differed only in the telescope mounts. The M1C mounted a model M81 2.5X telescope; the M1D an M82 2.5X telescope.

A Marine sergeant credited with nine kills poses for a combat photographer during a break in the action in July 1952.

Both models were used as sniper rifles during World War II, Korea, and during the early years of the Vietnam war. Although considered obsolete, the M1D remained the official U.S. Army sniper rifle until the mid-1960s. Both versions used the standard Army .30-06 cartridge loaded manually, or in eight-round clips.

The "old timers" who fought with Pershing and Marshall in World War I, opposed the "reduced accuracy" of the Garand rifle as compared to the revered--and sometimes even coveted--M1903 Springfield rifle. Also loudly voiced were fears that the new self-loader would cause horrendous expenditures of ammunition without commensurate enemy troops neutralized. Strange . . . the same thing was said when the 20-round box magazine appeared on battle rifles in the 1950's--25 years later.

There was, however, a difference. The Garand rifle, in spite of its supposed shortcomings, in spite of fears by its critics of disproportionate ammunition expenditures, performed brilliantly throughout its entire military career, compiling a service record as yet unsurpassed by any successor.

From 1936 to, officially, 1957, the Garand was seen in the heat of battle worldwide. Unofficially, it can today be encountered although considered to be "obsolete" by all but the most knowing experts--the ones who haven't forgotten what wins.

Renowned small-arms expert S.L.A. Marshall, in his highly detailed and critical evaluation of the performance of U.S. Infantry weapons during the Korean War, noted the phenomenal love of the American infantryman for the weapon, who, without reservation, candidly stated to him on over a hundred occasions that he could not think of replacing it with anything else.

The legend of the Garand was--and is--based upon the unassailable fact that the weapon, in spite of its theoretical weaknesses, WORKS--in the mud, in the rain, in the snow, and in the dust.

There must be a balance between accuracy and firepower in the general application. On one end of the spectrum we have the traditional bolt-action rifle such as the M 1903 Springfield. On the other end we have the M16. The Springfield was rugged, highly accurate and powerful, but, in the acid test of modern warfare, proved to be more complex to operate than necessary and unable to produce sufficient volumes of fire to be adequately effective.

Springfield 1903

On the other hand, the M16 is fragile, lacks power and range, is only moderately accurate, and designed with the idea that the trooper is to substitute a high volume of automatic fire with an inadequately powered cartridge for marksmanship. Neither one of these concepts is satisfactory, for as with most questions, the answer lies somewhere in the middle.

John Garand understood this, for even though the M16 did not yet exist, the principles on which it was to be based did.

The rifle he designed and developed was the solidification of his thinking. It is capable of what has proven over the years to be superb accuracy, far more than one can actually utilize in the field. It functions itself, allowing the operator to spend more time on the basic fundamentals of marksmanship. It is powerful and rugged, capable of sustaining incredible abuse and yet still knock down an enemy at 500 meters.

It is a rifleman's rifle--in the purest form--yet it does not encourage wild, inaccurate fire, nor does it break in half when used in close combat. It instills confidence, not disgust. It is the almost ideal compromise between firepower and accuracy, between the old and the "new."

Even outside the military application, there can be no finer rifle for a serious survivalist or adventurer in the field, for most of the same criteria still apply. The box magazine is the result of a need to mass suppressive fire, so important to the successful consummation of squad tactics. It has no value whatsoever to an individual, only the members of a larger group. It is fragile, must be kept separate from its loaded counterparts, catches on things incessantly in the field, and is uncomfortable to carry and manipulate.

The 8-round en bloc staggered clip of the Garand is small, light, simple in principle and application, and disposable. Once it fulfills its function, it is automatically ejected from the weapon.

Criticisms of the fact that one cannot "top off" a partially loaded clip while in the weapon appear to more theoretical than practical, for if one has time to realize the need to reload, he can simply insert a fresh clip and at leisure reload any partially expended one via single rounds of ammunition carried on his person. This is no secret to the seasoned infantryman, no matter what his generation.

No box magazine-equipped rifle compares to the superior balance and "feel" of the M1. It shoulders quickly, positively, and possesses the best human engineering in the world. In the overall context, it is the easiest battle rifle to shoot well.

To many the M1 Rifle has a classic elegance and grace characteristic of a bygone era, when steel was forged in white heat and walnut was carefully shaped for both form and function. "There will never be again such a rifle, so brimming with the genius of an individual mind, so well constructed to outlive us all, so sculpted as to ask the hand to caress."

Criticisms of the M1 are its weight, limited ammunition supply, the fact that single rounds could not be pushed in (8 round clip, or nothing). Also, the spent clip was automatically ejected after the last round was fired, making a distinctive sound, which could be fatal in close quarter or sniper operations.

As a supplement to the Garand the M1 Carbine was developed. It was totally different design philosophy with a smaller, less powerful cartridge and an effective range of 300 yds max. It weighed almost exactly 1/2 that of the M1 Garand. In many ways you could think of the M1 Carbine as a moderately powerful, two-handed, long-barreled auto pistol with a shoulder stock.

Even G.I. Joe carried the M1-Garand.

FReeper Foxhole Armed Services Links

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M-1 Rifle

To fully understand rifle marksmanship and rifle marksmanship training, it is necessary to know something of rifles, their characteristics and combat usefulness. The rifle is the primary individual weapon for all armies because it is the most versatile and effective weapon which can be carried and used by a soldier in combat. The rifle can fire ordinary bullets to kill enemy soldiers; it can fire armor-piercing bullets to wreck truck engines; it can fire tracer bullets to point out targets; and it can fire incendiary bullets to start fires in flammable materials.

Add to this the fact that the rifle can also shoot signal flares and powerful grenades and you can see that the rifle is one of the most important weapons in the army. But why the rifle? Isn't a hand weapon such as a pistol, revolver, or a hand grenade more convenient in combat? A hand weapon is far more convenient but it cannot do the wide and far-reaching job of a shoulder weapon.

The rifle is a weapon that can kill, or destroy at a considerable distance so that the enemy can be prevented from getting too close. If individual weapons can reach out a considerable distance it is easier to keep the enemy where larger, more powerful supporting weapons can smash him.

5th Marine Sniper in Punchbowl

The rifleman's weapon must be so constructed that it can be held with steadiness while he directs accurate fire, and powerful enough to kill enemy soldiers as far away as marksmanship skill and the precision of the weapon will allow.

Battlefield Requirements

The complex package called a "rifle" is what soldiers live by on the battlefield. If the design is well done, the rifle will fit the average man very well and will deliver accurate and deadly fire on targets. Seven essential. qualities of a modern combat rifle are:

It must be accurate.

Its trajectory must be flat.

Its recoil must be moderate.

It must be powerful.

It must be easy to master.

Its mechanism must be unfailing.

It and its ammunition (in quantity) must be light enough to carry under combat conditions.

Accurate rifle fire is a key to success. A soldier who merely "sprays" shots in the vicinity of the enemy produces little effect. Against an unseasoned enemy such fire may be temporarily effective, but the result is not lasting. The mission of the rifleman is to kill the enemy. Against seasoned troops, spraying shots has little effect. Someone once gave what is perhaps the best definition of firepower when he said that, "firepower is bullets hitting people!" Trajectory-wise, the M1 rifle is "flat-shooting."

That is, its bullets travel very fast, so they can't fall very much below the line of sight over their usable range. And because the bullets don't "drop" much below the extended line of the bore over combat ranges, it is relatively easy to make hits with them. Moderate recoil means that the muzzle climb in firing is moderate, which makes for fast recovery between shots. This is very important in rapid fire in combat against numbers of enemy.

The U.S. military rifle must be powerful. That means it must be able to kill an enemy soldier as far away as the rifleman can surely hit him. It must penetrate enemy helmets and body armor easily up to the same range. It should have enough punch to tear through the side of enemy trucks to kill personnel riding within or to destroy the truck engine. The bullets of the caliber .30 rifle are relatively small and light--fine for high speed; yet they are heavy enough and large enough in diameter to deliver a killing blow when they get where they are going.

Civil Service employee John Garand was in a class all by himself, much like the weapons he created. Garand was Chief Civilian Engineer at the Springfield Armory in Massachusetts. Garand invented a semiautomatic .30 caliber rifle, known as the M-1 or "the Garand," which was adopted in 1936 after grueling tests by the Army. It was gas-operated, weighed under 10 pounds, and was loaded by an 8-round clip. It fired more than twice as fast as the Army's previous standard-issue rifle and was praised by General George S. Patton, Jr., as "a magnificent weapon" and "the most deadly rifle in the world."

For the M-1 and numerous other technical innovations related to weaponry, Garand received no monetory award other than his modest Civil Service salary. A bill introduced in Congress to grant him $100,000 did not pass. He was, however, awarded a Medal for Meritorious Service in 1941 and a U.S. Government Medal for Merit in 1944.

The weapon Captain Green used to halt Kampfgruppe Peiper was the M1 carbine, a lighter version of the M1, the standard infantry rifle of the US Army. This was an excellent weapon, modern in design and very reliable. It was the first semi-automatic rifle in general use by a major power. All the other major armies used bolt-action rifles, which fired one shot at a time. The soldier firing a bolt-action rifle must pull the bolt back, load a bullet into the chamber, push the bolt forward, and twist it down to lock it in place. This must be done each time he shoots. It is a slow process.

With practice, a soldier can get off 10 shots a minute. In the heat of combat, this might not be enough. The semi-automatic rifle uses a clip of eight bullets. The burning gases from one shot are routed through a chamber to push a piston mechanism that drives the bolt back, loads the next bullet, and closes the bolt, all in about half a second. The end result is that the soldier simply aims and pulls the trigger for each shot, without having to reload between shots. After eight shots, though, a new clip must be loaded. (Fully automatic weapons fire continuously once the trigger is pulled. Machine guns, machine pistols, and assault rifles are fully automatic.

Most modern armies equip their soldiers with fully automatic weapons and then try to train them not to waste ammunition.) The M1 was a powerful weapon. It weighed over nine pounds. Its 30-caliber bullet (0.30 inches in diameter) could kill a man half a mile away -- and the rifle was accurate enough to hit a man that far away. But it was also a cumbersome weapon. The M1 carbine was a trimmed-down version, with a shorter barrel and a smaller stock. It weighed less than seven pounds and was quite handy, but not much good for stopping a Panzer division.

Today's Educational Sources and suggestions for further reading:
1 posted on 11/17/2003 3:30:48 AM PST by snippy_about_it
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To: All
With respect, I think what you might be missing is how many of us FEEL about the M1 Garand. I'm just a pup compared to the M1 Garand (I'm 36, and a veteran, but I carried the M16A1), but many of us consider that the M1 Garand was "the rifle that won the war." That may or may not be entirely true, but I don't think it can be disputed that there is a lot of history and a lot of emotion tied up in this old, reliable, workhorse of the US military.

There is also the issue that this Garand is somehow DIFFERENT from the M1 Garands available in gun shops. This is not a "lend-lease" Garand that is now coming back home, after serving in who knows how many governments and passing through who knows how many hands. This is an M1 Garand that might have been carried by a US Soldier or Marine in Europe or the South Pacific, that might have spoken freedom with a crack of powder and a hail of lead. This Garand might have seen Mt. Suribachi, and it might have saved the life or lives of American troops in battle.

This M1 Garand might have been cleaned lovingly in Parris Island or San Diego, by Marine recruits who learned to sleep with it, love it, be one with it. It might have been held at the position of "Rifle Salute" while passing through ticker tape parades at the end of the war, or it might have been held at "Present Arms" and saluted the Commander in Chief when "Johnny came marching home again."

This M1 Garand may have been held proudly, lovingly, when the National Ensign was retired for the evening, when "Taps" was sounded mournfully for a fallen brother-in-arms, when "Reveille" sounded in a forward camp in France, Italy, Iwo Jima, or Guadalcanal.

This M1 Garand may have been presented for inspection to Chesty Puller, Douglas MacArther, or Admiral Nimitz. It may have been field-stripped and cleaned by John Basilone, Lou Diamond, or any number of WWII heroes and veterans, some of whose names are not recorded by posterity, but who fought with courage, determination, and pride. In other words, heroes. My heroes.

Probably, it didn't do any of those things. Probably, it is just another rifle, eclipsed in ability and accuracy and rate of fire by the fine battle rifles that came afterwards. But, since it comes directly out of our US arsenals and warehouses, where it was lovingly stored away more than 50 years ago, in the hopes that we would never again be called upon to defend liberty on foreign shores, it MEANS something special to us.

This M1 Garand is a rifle. It is an accurate, hard-hitting rifle, which can make a fine target rifle, game-getter, home-defense weapon, or just a wall-hanger. That doesn't matter.

This M1 Garand is us. It is our determination, our sweat and blood, our father's and grandfather's lives in battle, the price of liberty paid for us!

This M1 Garand rifle represents who we are, who we were, and who we will be in the future.

The United States of America is a special place. We know that others have fought and died for liberty, but we are Americans. The bended knee has never been one of our traditions. We bow to no man, we genuflect to no Prince or Potentate, we have no nobles among us. We have risen up as one against tyranny and oppression since before our nation began. We were born in bloody revolution and have never hesitated to step into the breech when called upon to do so. We have willingly laid down our lives, the lives of our sons and daughters, for an idea, a concept, a theory; that all men should be free, that no man is better than another.

In the uncertainty of WWII, when the very concept of Democracy was in the balance, when two enemies of liberty engaged us at the same time on two different fronts, this M1 Garand gave us a decided edge in battle, and completed by the American Fighting Man and his marksmanship skills, we carried the day for liberty, democracy, and the rights of man.

This M1 Garand is tied to us, and we to it. It is our heritage, and one that should never be denied. It very much represents the terrible price of freedom.

I am an American Fighting Man. I am a Marine, a Soldier, an Airman, a Sailor. I go in harm's way to carry out the Will of the People, and go armed with my skills, my ability, my courage, and my rifle. This M1 Garand represents that rifle to me.

I want my M1 Garand, I want it very much. I don't care what it's limitations are, or what else I could have purchased with the money that I spent to acquire it. I am a Marine Rifleman, and I want what belongs to me, my legacy of freedom, bequeathed to me by my father, grandfather, uncles and grand-uncles, and cousins. They paid the price so that I could claim this M1 Garand and enjoy the full measure of freedom to be found in this country and no other. And I shall.

For those who are interested, all citizens of the United States who are otherwise permitted to own firearms may purchase one M1 Garand per year from the Civilian Marksmanship Program (formerly the Division of Civilian Marksmanship).

Until 1996, the Division of Civilian Marksmanship was administered by the US Army, and charged with distributing former US military weapons into the hands of law-abiding citizens of the USA. They have been doing so since 1916.

There is now a movement afoot by the gun-grabbers to take our heritage away from us, as they feel that law-abiding citizens can't be trusted to not shoot ourselves or each other with these weapons. We may not win this battle for our heritage; therefore, I would urge anyone who feels as I do to get involved, fight for our rights in this area, and above all, get your M1 Garand as soon as you can, and never, ever, give it up.

Semper Fidelis,

Bill Mattocks
former Sgt, USMC (1979-1985)

PS - This little script below says far better than I ever could how I feel about the M1 Garand. It is not very "politically correct," and it may cause consternation in those of you who feel we'd all be safer if we ate lettuce and sat around thinking pure thoughts, but such is the cost of freedom. Some of you may recognize it:

United States Marine Corps
Rifleman's Creed
MGEN W.H. Rupertus, USMC

This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I master my life.

My rifle, without me is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will....

My rifle and myself know that what counts in this war is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our burst, nor the smoke we make. We know that it is the hits that count. We will hit...

My rifle is human, even as I, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it as a brother. I will learn its weakness, its strength, its parts, its accessories, its sights and its barrel. I will ever guard it against the ravages of weather and damage. I will keep my rifle clean and ready, even as I am clean and ready. We will become part of each other. We will...

Before God I swear this creed. My rifle and myself are the defenders of my country. We are the masters of our enemy. We are the saviors of my life.

So be it, until victory is America's and there is no enemy, but Peace!
2 posted on 11/17/2003 3:46:32 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it

3 posted on 11/17/2003 3:47:30 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: carton253; Matthew Paul; mark502inf; Skylight; The Mayor; Prof Engineer; PsyOp; Samwise; ...

FALL IN to the FReeper Foxhole!

Good Monday Morning Everyone

If you would like added to our ping list let us know.

4 posted on 11/17/2003 3:48:25 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it
Good morning, Snippy and everyone at the Foxhole. Still watching for sotrms here today.
5 posted on 11/17/2003 4:21:46 AM PST by E.G.C.
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf
M1 Garand Bump!!!

Mornin' Snippy,,,,Mornin' Sam!!!

6 posted on 11/17/2003 4:24:47 AM PST by SCDogPapa (In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie)
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To: snippy_about_it
. . . That which is done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun. —Ecclesiastes 1:9

I wonder what I did for God today:
How many times did I once pause and pray?
But I must find and serve Him in these ways,
For life is made of ordinary days.  Macbeth

If life is a grind, use it to sharpen your character.

7 posted on 11/17/2003 4:37:04 AM PST by The Mayor (Through prayer, finite man draws upon the power of the infinite God.)
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To: snippy_about_it
8 posted on 11/17/2003 4:41:26 AM PST by manna
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf
never fired the M-1, I had the M16-A1

The rounds look about the same.
9 posted on 11/17/2003 4:42:44 AM PST by The Mayor (Through prayer, finite man draws upon the power of the infinite God.)
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To: E.G.C.
Good morning EGC. We have fog but warmer temps today.
10 posted on 11/17/2003 4:50:31 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: SCDogPapa
Mornin' SCDogPapa!
11 posted on 11/17/2003 4:51:13 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: The Mayor
Good morning Mayor. How is it going?
12 posted on 11/17/2003 4:52:13 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: manna
Good morning manna.
13 posted on 11/17/2003 4:52:42 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: The Mayor
Well, they both have a pointed end and a flat end but thats about it.
14 posted on 11/17/2003 4:57:31 AM PST by U S Army EOD (Just plain Wootten)
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To: snippy_about_it

Today's classic warship, USS Michigan (BB-27)

South Carolina class battleship

displacement. 16,000 t.
length. 452'9"
beam. 80'3"
draft. 24'6"
speed. 18.5 k.
complement. 869
armament. 8 12", 22 3", 4 1-pdrs, 2 .30 cal, mg., 2 21" tt.

The USS Michigan (BB-27) was laid down 17 December 1906 by New York Shipbuilding Co., Camden, N.J.; launched 26 May 1908; sponsored by Mrs. F, W. Brooks, daughter of Secretary of the Navy Truman Newberry; and commissioned 4 January 1910, Capt. N. R. Usher in command.

Assigned to the Atlantic Fleet Michigan conducted shakedown off the east coast and in the eastern Caribbean until 7 June 1910. Standing out of New York Harbor 29 July, the battlewagon then steamed along the New England and middle Atlantic coasts on maneuvers. On 2 November she departed Boston, Mass., for a training cruise to western Europe. After visiting Portland, England, she arrived Cherbourg, France, 8 December. She sailed 30 December for the Caribbean, touched Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, 10 January 1911, and reached Norfolk on the 14th.

Michigan operated along the Atlantic coast until standing out from the Virginia Capes 15 November 1912 for a cruise to the Gulf of Mexico. After visiting Pensacola, New Orleans, and Galveston, she arrived Vera Cruz, Mexico, 12 December. She headed for home 2 days later and reached Hampton Roads on the 20th. She operated along the east coast until departing Quincy, Mass. 6 July for the Gulf coast of Mexico to protect American interests endangered by civil strife in Mexico. The battleship anchored off Tampico on the 15th and remained alert off the Mexican coast until sailing for New York 13 January 1914, reaching Brooklyn Navy Yard on the 20th.

She began a run from Norfolk to Guacanayabo Bay, Cuba, 14 February and returned to Hampton Roads 19 March. Underway again 16 April she joined American forces upholding American honor at Vera Cruz. Reaching that troubled Mexican city 22 April, she landed a battalion of marines as part of the main occupation force, then operated off the Mexican coast heading home 20 June and entered the Delaware Capes on the 16th.

Michigan next put to sea 11 October 1914 and from that time until the eve of America's entry into World War I, operated out of various ports on the eastern seaboard. Assigned to Battleship Force 2, 6 April 1917, the warship escorted convoys, trained recruits, and engaged in fleet maneuvers and battle practice. On 15 January 1918, while steaming in formation with the fleet off Cape Hatteras. Michigan's foremast buckled and was carried away over the port side as the battlewagon lurched violently in the trough of a heavy sea. Six men were killed and 13 injured, five seriously, in this accident. Michigan proceeded to Norfolk where the next day she transferred her casualties to Solace (AH-5). On the 22d she entered Philadelphia Navy Yard for repairs. Early in April she resumed operations off the east coast and trained gunners in Chesapeake Bay until World War I ended.

Ordered to duty with the Cruiser and Transport Force in late December 1918, the battleship made two voyages to Europe, 18 January to 3 March and 18 March to 16 April 1919, returning 1,052 troops to the United States.

Following overhaul at Philadelphia during May and June, Michigan resumed training exercises in the Atlantic until 6 August, when she was placed in limited commission at Philadelphia Nary Yard. She next put to sea 19 May 1919, sailing to Annapolis to embark midshipmen for a training cruise through the Panama Canal to Honolulu, Hawaii, arriving 3 July. The cruise continued to major west coast naval bases and Guantanamo Bay before the battleship returned home in September. She returned to Philadelphia 5 September, and was placed in ordinary until sailing 4 April 1921 for the Caribbean. Returning Hampton Roads 23 April, she reached Annapolis 18 May to begin her second midshipmen training cruise. She got underway 4 June for Europe, visiting Christiana, Norway; Lisbon, Portugal; and Gibraltar, and returning via Guantanamo to Hampton Roads 11 August. The veteran battleship put to sea 31 August to make her final cruise up the Delaware River to Philadelphia, arriving 1 September. Michigan decommissioned at Philadelphia Navy Yard 11 February 1922 and was stricken from the Navy list 10 November 1923. In accordance with the treaty limiting naval armaments, she and four other battleships were scrapped by the Philadelphia Nary Yard during 1924. Materials from their hulls were sold to four different foundries.

Big guns in action!

15 posted on 11/17/2003 5:01:02 AM PST by aomagrat (IYAOYAS)
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To: aomagrat
Thanks aomagrat.

I imagine with the high winds and twisting metal it must have been frightening to see the mast come crashing down and then to send the ship into violent lurches, and the loss of life, how awful.
16 posted on 11/17/2003 5:23:19 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: U S Army EOD
...they both have a pointed end and a flat end..


Good morning US Army EOD. That's about all I knew before I started searching for data on the Garand. :)

17 posted on 11/17/2003 5:25:48 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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Comment #18 Removed by Moderator

To: Matthew Paul; SAMWolf
Hi Matt, we don't write them, we'd never have time for that. We just go out and research information already available on the internet.

Sometimes we have to combine pieces of information, sometimes we find all we need in one place. We almost always have to hunt down pictures to go with all the threads ourselves because most information is just text and we like to add relevant pictures to make it more enjoyable to read.

We just gather what is already out there, make it presentable and bring it to the Foxhole.

The only time we write our own is on holidays or as additions to the threads. We'd have to never go to our real jobs that pay to be able to produce this much information, even then it would be difficult. LOL.

We're glad you enjoy them.
19 posted on 11/17/2003 5:37:04 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it
Good morning Snippy
Great post this day , it is always good to see what wepons we used to win. I have used the M1 Carbine and it is a kick to shoot. God Blees the troops and our Great country.
20 posted on 11/17/2003 5:39:06 AM PST by weldgophardline (Pacifism Creates Terrorism & so does the GREEN PARTY)
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To: weldgophardline
Good morning and thank you weldgophardline. Good to 'see' you again.
21 posted on 11/17/2003 5:48:33 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it
Birthdates which occurred on November 17:
0331 Flavius Claudius Julianus, [Julian the Apostate], emperor
1503 Il Bronzino Florentine painter (Eleanor de Toledo & her Son)
1587 Joost van den Vondel Cologne Germany, Dutch poet/dramatist (Jephtha)
1717 Jean d'Alembert Fr, mathematician/philosopher (Trait‚ de Dynamique)
1755 Louis XVIII 1st post-revolutionary king of France (1814-24)
1790 August Ferdinand Mobius mathematician, inventor (Mobius strip)
1799 Titian Ramsey Peale US, artist/naturalist (American Ornithology)
1878 Grace Abbott Grand Island NB, social worker (US Children Bureau)
1887 Bernard L Montgomery British general (WW II-African campaign)
1890 Jack Cusack pro football pioneer (Canton Bulldogs)
1897 Sara Haden Galveston TX, actress (A Family Affair)
1900 Marcel Dalio Paris, actor (Casablanca)
1901 Lee Strasberg director/instructs actors (Somewhere in the Night)
1904 Isamu Noguchi sculptor (1963 Fine Arts Medal)
1905 Mischa Auer St Petersburg Russia, actor (My Man Godfrey)
1914 Archie Campbell Bullsgap TN, comedian (Hee Haw)
1917 Jack Lescoulie Sacramento CA, TV host (Jackie Gleason Show)
1919 Hershy Kay Philadelphia PA, composer/arranger (Olympic Hymn)
1925 Rock Hudson Winnetka IL, actor (Pillow Talk, A Farewell to Arms)
1925 Sir Charles Mackerras Schenectady NY, Australian conductor
1929 Edgar White US, yachtsman (Olympic-gold-1952)
1929 Sumner White US, yachtsman (Olympic-gold-1952)
1930 Bob Mathias Tulare CA, decathalete (Olympic-gold-1948, 52)
1930 David Amram Philadelphia PA, composer (Splendor in the Grass)
1935 Anton Sailer Austria, skier (Olympic-3 golds-1956)
1937 Peter Cook Torquay England, actor/comedian (Bedazzled)
1938 Gordon Lightfoot Ontario Canada, folksinger (Sundown)
1938 Peter Snell NZ, 800m/1500m runner (Olympic-gold-1960, 64)
1942 Martin Scorsese Queens, dir (Mean Streets, Last Temptation of Christ)
1943 Lauren Hutton Charleston SC, model (American Gigolo, Lassiter)
1944 Danny De Vito Neptune NJ, actor (Taxi, Ruthless People, Twins)
1944 Tom Seaver pitcher (NY Met, 300 game winner, Cy Young '69 '73 '75)
1945 Elvin Hayes NBA star (San Diego, Houston, Baltimore)
1948 Jaime Huelamo Spain, cyclist (Olympic-bronze-1972) drug disqualified
1950 Roland Matthes German DR, 100m/200m backstroke (Oly-gold-1968, 72)
1951 Dean Paul Martin Santa Monica CA, actor (Billy-Misfits of Science)
1952 Roman Codreanu Romania, wrestler (Olympic-1980)
1955 Bill McCreary Ontario, NHL referee
1955 Peter Cox rocker (Go West-Call Me, Don't Look Down)
1958 Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio Oak Park IL, actress (Color of Money)
1959 William R Moses Los Angeles CA, actor (Cole-Falcon Crest)
1960 Jonathan Ross British talk show host
1961 Merete Van Kemp Denmark, actress (Grace-Dallas, Princess Daisy)
1962 Eric Olson Santa Monica CA, actress (Apple's Way)
1962 Traci Lords fictious birth date to do porn movies (actual 5/7/68)
1963 Pedro Luis Estrada Brooklyn NY, murderer (FBI Most Wanted List)
1964 Daisy Fuentes Havana Cuba, VJ (MTV International)
1964 Marina Tcherkasova US, pairs figure skater (Olympic-silver-1980)
1966 Sophie Marceau Paris France, actress (La Boum, L'Amour Braque)
1967 Ronald DaVoe rocker (New Edition-Heart Break)
1974 Brandon Call actor (Baywatch, Blind Fury, Step by Step)
1980 Clarke Isaac Hanson Tulsa OK, guitarist-Hanson (MMMBop)

Deaths which occurred on November 17:
0474 Leo II, Byzantine Emperor (474), dies
1558 Mary I Tudor, "Bloody Mary", queen of England (1553-58), dies at 42
1558 Reginald Pole, English cardinal/scholar/"heretic", dies at 58
1796 Catharine II ("the Great"), empress of Russia (1762-96), dies at 67
1917 Auguste Rodin sculptor, dies in Meudon, France
1962 Arthur Vining Davis CEO (Alcoa-1910-57), dies at 92 in Miami
1971 Gladys Cooper actress (Margaret-The Rogues), dies at 83
1978 Claude Dauphin actor (Paris Precinct), dies at 75
1978 James J "Gene" Tunney, heavyweight boxing champ (1926-8), dies at 80
1979 John Grascock of Jethro Tull, dies at 27 following heart surgery
1981 Bob Eberly singer (Jimmy Dorsey Band), dies at 65
1982 Bill Baldwin announcer (Mayor of Hollywood), dies at 69
1982 Duk Koo Kim S Korean boxer was legally declared dead
1982 Ruth Donnelly comedienne, dies at 86 in NYC
1985 Jimmy Ritz of Ritz brothers, dies of heart failure at 81
1986 Alan Hewitt actor (Det Brennan-My Favorite Martian), dies at 71
1987 Irene Wicker singer/actress (Singing Lady), dies at 81


[POSS DEAD, REM RET ID 02/25/97]

POW / MIA Data & Bios supplied by
the P.O.W. NETWORK. Skidmore, MO. USA.

On this day...
1278 680 Jews arrested (293 hanged) in England for counterfeiting coins
1558 Elizabeth I ascends English throne upon death of Queen Mary
1734 John Zenger, arrested for libel against NY col gov; later acquitted
1796 Battle of Arcole-Napoleon I's French forces beat Austrians in Italy
1800 Congress held 1st session in Washington DC
1800 John Adams is 1st president to move into the White House
1842 Fugitive slave George Latimer, captured in Boston
1842 The opera "Linda di Chamounix" is produced (London)
1853 Street signs authorized at San Francisco intersections
1858 Origin of Modified Julian Period
1862 Union General Ambrose Burnside marches north out of Washington, D.C., to begin the Fredericksburg campaign
1862 Confederate Secretary of War George B Randolph resigns
1866 The opera "Mignon" is produced (Paris)
1869 Suez Canal opens (Egypt)
1875 Amer Theosophical Society founded by Mme Blavatsky & Col Olcott
1884 Cops arrest John L Sullivan in 2nd round for being "cruel"
1889 Union Pacific begins daily through service, Chicago-Portland & San Francisco
1894 Daily Racing Form founded
1913 1st US dental hygienists course established, Bridgeport, Ct
1913 Panama Canal opens
1917 Lenin defends "temporary" removal of freedom of the press
1926 NHL's Chicago Black Hawks play their 1st game, beat Toronto St Pats 4-1
1927 Tornado hit Washington DC
1934 Lyndon B Johnson marries Claudia Alta Taylor
1937 Britain's Lord Halifax visits Germany, beginning of appeasement
1938 Italy passes their own version of the anti-Jewish Nuremberg laws
1940 Green Bay Packers become 1st NFL team to travel by plane
1945 New world air speed record 606 mph (975 kph) set by HJ Wilson of RAF
1948 Britain's House of Commons votes to nationalize steel industry
1956 Fullback Jim Brown, Syracuse, scores 43 pts (NCAA rec) vs Colgate
1959 De Beers firm of South Africa announces synthetic diamond
1962 President Kennedy dedicates Dulles International Airport outside Wash DC
1965 The NVA ambushes American troops of the 7th Cavalry at Landing Zone Albany in the Ia Drang Valley, almost wiping them out
1966 Leonids meteor shower peaks (150,000+ per hour)
1967 Beatles Ltd & Apple Music Ltd swap names
1967 Surveyor 6 becomes 1st man-made object to lift off the Moon
1968 Heidi bowl-NBC misses Oakland's rally to beat Jets, 43-32
1970 Russia lands Lunokhod 1 unmanned remote-controlled vehicle on Moon
1973 Teri Garr plays the role of a stripper on "The Nurse"
1973 President Nixon told AP "...people have got to know whether or not their President is a crook. Well, I'm not a crook"
1977 Egyptian President Sadat formally accepts invitation to visit Israel
1977 Miss World Contest - Miss UK wears $9,500 platinum bikini
1979 NY Stars (WBL) home opener at MSG in NYC
1980 John Lennon releases "Double Fantasy" album in UK
1981 NBA NY Knick Bill Cartwright, ties record of 19 of 19 free throws
1984 Golden State Warrior scores 59 points losing to NJ Nets 124-110
1984 Islanders score 20 assists against Rangers
1985 NY Jets best offensive production beating Tampa Bay 62-28
1988 Benzir Bhutto wins election in Pakistan
1989 Bret Saberhagen signs record $2,966,667 per year Kansas City Royal contract
1989 Riot police in Prague, Czechoslovakia, stormed into a crowd of more than 20-thousand pro-democracy demonstrators...beating people with truncheons and firing tear gas.
1991 Detroit Lion Mike Utley is paralyzed in a game vs Los Angeles Rams
1992 Dateline NBC airs a demonstration show General Motors trucks, blowing up on impact, later revealed NBC rigged test
1993 US Congress votes for NAFTA
1994 Irish Taoiseach, Albert Reynolds resigns

Note: Some Holidays are only applicable on a given "day of the week"

Zaire : Army Day
US : National Geography Awareness Week (Day 2)
US : Homemade Bread Day
US : National Children's Book Week Begins (Monday)
West Germany : Repentance Day (Wednesday)
TV Sweeps Month

Religious Observances
Ang : Commemoration of St Anianus' Day (bishop/martyr)
RC : Comm of St Gregory the Wonderworker, bishop/confessor
Ang : Commemoration of Hugh, Bishop of Lincoln
RC, Luth : Mem of Elizabeth of Hungary, princess/widow

Religious History
0003 (BC) According to early Christian theologian Clement of Alexandria (ca.155_ca.220 AD), Jesus Christ was born on this date.
1758 English churchman Philip Embury, 30, married Margaret Switzer. Afterward immigrating to America, Embury was later encouraged by his cousin Barbara Heck to found a Methodist society in New York City in 1768. Embury thus became the first Methodist preacher in North America.
1775 Anglican hymnwriter John Newton wrote in a letter: 'Rational assent may be the act of our natural reason; faith is the effect of immediate almighty power.'
1876 English_born Rodney ("Gipsy") Smith, 16, was converted to a living faith. Smith later became an English Wesleyan singing evangelist whose preaching emphasized the love of God.
1906 In Toronto, Ellen Hebden experienced a Pentecostal baptism, followed soon after by her husband James. Their East End Mission afterward became a source and focal point for establishing Pentecostal holiness throughout Canada.

Source: William D. Blake. ALMANAC OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH. Minneapolis: Bethany House, 1987.

Thought for the day :
"Thrift is a wonderful virtue - in an ancestor."

Question of the day...
Should Vegetarians eat animal crackers?

Murphys Law of the day...(Boling's Postulate)
If you're feeling good, don't worry. You'll get over it.

WOW!! did you know...
Madrid is the only European capital city not situated on a river.

22 posted on 11/17/2003 5:50:15 AM PST by Valin (We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give.)
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Comment #23 Removed by Moderator

To: Matthew Paul
Maybe they used them for dinner plates too. LOL.

24 posted on 11/17/2003 6:39:03 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it
Thanks for the alert. I was an Infantry Rifleman and carried my M-1 through France, Germany and Austria. Didn't leave home without it.
25 posted on 11/17/2003 7:15:01 AM PST by ex-snook (Americans need Balanced Trade - we buy from you, you buy from us. No free rides.)
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To: snippy_about_it
Good Morning Sippy. Excellent thread!

I never got to carry the M-1 Garand, but it did carry it's younger brother the M-14, I preferred the M-14 over the M-16.

Someone once gave what is perhaps the best definition of firepower when he said that, "firepower is bullets hitting people!"

26 posted on 11/17/2003 7:20:17 AM PST by SAMWolf (Talk is cheap except when Congress does it.)
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Comment #27 Removed by Moderator

To: E.G.C.
Morning E.G.C.

Rain again today, had high winds yesterday, no more leaves on the trees :-)
28 posted on 11/17/2003 7:24:06 AM PST by SAMWolf (Talk is cheap except when Congress does it.)
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To: SCDogPapa
Good Morning, SCDogPapa. Can't beleive I got misty eyed reading about a rifle.
29 posted on 11/17/2003 7:25:16 AM PST by SAMWolf (Talk is cheap except when Congress does it.)
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To: The Mayor
Hiya Mayor.
30 posted on 11/17/2003 7:25:36 AM PST by SAMWolf (Talk is cheap except when Congress does it.)
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To: manna
Hi Manna!

31 posted on 11/17/2003 7:25:53 AM PST by SAMWolf (Talk is cheap except when Congress does it.)
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To: The Mayor
Size wise there's a big difference..
32 posted on 11/17/2003 7:30:26 AM PST by SAMWolf (Talk is cheap except when Congress does it.)
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf; radu; All

Good morning everyone!

33 posted on 11/17/2003 7:32:03 AM PST by Soaring Feather (~The Dragon Flies' Lair~ Poetry is the flair.)
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To: U S Army EOD

6.5x50SR, 7.92x33, 7.62x33, 7.62x39, 7.62x45, 7x49, 5.45x39, 5.56x45, 7.62x51 for scale.

34 posted on 11/17/2003 7:35:35 AM PST by SAMWolf (Talk is cheap except when Congress does it.)
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To: aomagrat
Morning aomagrat.

I was wondering if one of those silly looking masts ever collapsed, now I know.
35 posted on 11/17/2003 7:37:01 AM PST by SAMWolf (Talk is cheap except when Congress does it.)
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To: ex-snook
You're welcome and thank you for your service. So was it as reliable as everyone says?
36 posted on 11/17/2003 7:39:06 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: SAMWolf
LOL. Good morning SAM. Thanks for the army of smiley faces well armed!
37 posted on 11/17/2003 7:39:52 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: Matthew Paul
Good Morning Matt.

I wish we had a similar forum in Poland.

You do, It's called the "FReeper Foxhole" ;-)

You could always give assignments having your students translate the threads into Polish for "extra credit".

38 posted on 11/17/2003 7:40:43 AM PST by SAMWolf (Talk is cheap except when Congress does it.)
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To: bentfeather
Good morning feather.
39 posted on 11/17/2003 7:41:14 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: weldgophardline
Morning weldgophardline. I never got to fire the carbine.
40 posted on 11/17/2003 7:42:05 AM PST by SAMWolf (Talk is cheap except when Congress does it.)
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Comment #41 Removed by Moderator

To: Valin
1973 Teri Garr plays the role of a stripper on "The Nurse"

<==Mash Teri

42 posted on 11/17/2003 7:56:06 AM PST by SAMWolf (Talk is cheap except when Congress does it.)
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf
Morning Glory Snip & Sam~

What a fine piece of iron and wood. You guys put together a really "sexy" thread today! ;o)

43 posted on 11/17/2003 7:59:03 AM PST by w_over_w (Is it possible to forget what's happening as it's happening?)
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To: ex-snook
Morning ex-snook.

The "good old days" when they actually taught marksmanship.

Of course a lot of people already knew about that before the Service. Sadly today most people's first experience with a rifle is if they join the service.
44 posted on 11/17/2003 7:59:28 AM PST by SAMWolf (Talk is cheap except when Congress does it.)
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To: bentfeather
Morning Feather.
45 posted on 11/17/2003 8:00:17 AM PST by SAMWolf (Talk is cheap except when Congress does it.)
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To: weldgophardline
Great post this day , it is always good to see what wepons we used to win. I have used the M1 Carbine and it is a kick to shoot.

I agree... I own an M1 carbine that my son loves to shoot.

And I've got a couple of Garands. There's no equivelent today that compares with their workmanship & quality.

46 posted on 11/17/2003 8:00:34 AM PST by skeeter (Fac ut vivas)
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To: Matthew Paul
LOL! Sounds just like our Public School kids here in the States.
47 posted on 11/17/2003 8:01:26 AM PST by SAMWolf (Talk is cheap except when Congress does it.)
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To: w_over_w
Morning w_over_w.

Snippy didi all the work, I just helped find some of the pictures for her.
48 posted on 11/17/2003 8:02:46 AM PST by SAMWolf (Talk is cheap except when Congress does it.)
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To: skeeter
My son's friend has a Garand and he's been able to fire it. I am so jealous.
49 posted on 11/17/2003 8:04:08 AM PST by SAMWolf (Talk is cheap except when Congress does it.)
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To: Valin
1927 Tornado hit Washington DC

Does history repeat itself?

50 posted on 11/17/2003 8:04:22 AM PST by w_over_w (Is it possible to forget what's happening as it's happening?)
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