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The Question of Presidential
versus
Congressional Authority.


The result of whatever actually did or did not happen in the Tonkin Gulf was that, by overwhelmingly approving the resolution, the U.S. Congress ceded to the president the power that America's Founding Fathers endowed only Congress--the power to declare war. According to McNamara, herein lies the significance of the Tonkin Gulf Resolution: "The fundamental issue of Tonkin Gulf involves not deception, but rather, misuse of power bestowed by the resolution. The language of the resolution plainly granted the powers the President subsequently used and Congress understood the breadth of those powers....But no doubt exists that Congress did not intend to authorize, without further, full consultation, the expansion of U.S. forces in Vietnam from 16,000 to 550,000 men, initiating large scale combat operations with the risk of an expanded war with China and the Soviet Union, and extending U.S. involvement in Vietnam for many years to come."



Despite passage of the War Powers Act in 1973, the question of presidential versus congressional authority over U.S. military operations remains a topic of serious contention. In 1990, McNamara testified to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee that no president should be able to send American troops to war without congressional approval. He further testified that he believed President George Bush would seek congressional support before sending American troops to conduct combat operations against Iraq. Bush did, and McNamara added, "President Bush was right. President Johnson and those of us who served with him were wrong."

For the Tonkin Gulf incident itself, McNamara endorses the hypothesis of former Assistant Secretary of State for Far Eastern Affairs William Bundy: "Miscalculation by both the U.S. and North Vietnam is, in the end, at root of the best hindsight hypothesis on Hanoi's behavior. In simple terms, it was a mistake for our administration, resolved to keep the risks low, to have 34 Alpha operations and the destroyer patrol take place even in the same time period. Rational minds could not readily foresee that Hanoi might confuse them...but rational minds' calculations should have taken into account the irrational....Washington did not want an incident, and it seems that Hanoi hadn't either. Yet, each misread the other, and the incidents happened."

Daniel Ellsberg, at the November 1995 Vietnam Veterans Institute Conference, was far more critical of those who served in the executive branch and notably more apologetic: "What I did not reveal in the Summer of 64...was a conspiracy to manipulate the public into a war and to win an election through fraud...which had the exact horrible consequences the founders of this country envisioned when they ruled out, they thought as best they could, that an Executive Branch could secretly decide the decisions of war and peace, without public debate or vote of Congress....Senator Morse, one of the two people who voted against the Tonkin Gulf Resolution told me in 1971, '...had you given us all that information...seven years earlier, in 1964, the Tonkin Gulf Resolution would never have gotten out of Committee. And, if it had, it would never have passed....' But there was a time in my life later...knowing the consequences of all these policies...when I did say to myself that I'm never going to lie again with the justification that someone has told me I have to....I've never been sorry I've stopped doing that."



Now that time has passed and some of the individuals involved have re-examined what happened, the shroud of controversy surrounding the events of August 4, 1964, has begun to lift. As mentioned earlier, the former secretary of defense endorses a joint effort with the Communist Vietnamese to discuss and clear up some of the contentious areas of the Vietnamese conflict. This effort may prove difficult and ultimately fruitless unless the Vietnamese decide to be more candid.

Truth Is Simply A Weapon.


Care must be taken with Communist Vietnamese versions of history. As a typical totalitarian regime, Hanoi is acutely aware of how it is perceived from abroad. The Communists monitor and often censor what is said or written about them by their own citizens. This sort of information-control policy helps to ensure that their "official" accounts of history are accepted by their populace and go unchallenged. They are quick to accept praise, warranted or not. And they are even quicker to deny fault, deserved or not.

In one of their more current official histories, the Communist Vietnamese claim responsibility for the initial attack in the Gulf of Tonkin, but say that the second was an American fabrication to justify airstrikes on August 5. In an older history, they not only claim the second attack on August 4-5, 1964, but declare that date as their navy's anniversary or "tradition day," proclaiming it the day "when one of our torpedo squadrons chased the destroyer Maddox from our coastal waters, our first victory over the U.S. Navy."

About this assertion, Douglas Pike, the foremost U.S. authority on the People's Army of Vietnam (PAVN), notes, "If the Gulf of Tonkin Incident is a myth created by the Pentagon, as some revisionist historians claim, the PAVN navy is now part of the conspiracy." In this same history, the Communist Vietnamese claim that their navy sank 353 American naval vessels. It is rational to believe that the number of U.S. Navy vessels lost to a fleet of Communist patrol boats, with a total arsenal of 60 torpedoes, was somewhat less.



These and other indicators reveal that, to the Communist Vietnamese, truth is simply a weapon. Given Hanoi's fondness for duplicity, we begin to understand the task faced by intelligence professionals of the Vietnam era--and by modern researchers, historians and former government officials who, with as much as 30 years of hindsight, are trying even today to unravel the events of that conflict.
1 posted on 08/03/2003 12:15:43 AM PDT by SAMWolf
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To: AntiJen; snippy_about_it; Victoria Delsoul; SassyMom; bentfeather; MistyCA; GatorGirl; radu; ...
After the assassination of John F. Kennedy, his deputy, Lyndon B. Johnson became the new president of the United States. Johnson was a strong supporter of the Domino Theory and believed that the prevention of an National Liberation Front victory in South Vietnam was vital to the defence of the United States: "If we quit Vietnam, tomorrow we'll be fighting in Hawaii and next week we'll have to fight in San Francisco."

Johnson, like Kennedy before him, came under pressure from his military advisers to take more 'forceful' action against North Vietnam and the NLF. The Joint Chiefs of Staff advised Johnson to send United States combat troops to South Vietnam. The overthrow of President Ngo Dinh Diem had not resulted in preventing the growth of the NLF. The new leader of South Vietnam, General Khanh, was doubtful that his own army was strong enough to prevent a communist victory.



Johnson told his Joint Chiefs of Staff that he would do all that was necessary to prevent the NLF winning in South Vietnam but was unwilling to take unpopular measures like sending troops to tight in a foreign war, until after the 1964 Presidential Elections. Just let me get elected," he told his military advisers, "and then you can have your war."

As the election was not due for another eleven months, the Joint Chiefs of Staff feared that this was too long to wait. They therefore suggested another strategy that would be less unpopular with the American public as it would result in fewer of the men being killed.

For sometime, military intelligence officers working in Vietnam had believed that without the support of the Hanoi government, the NLF would not survive. They therefore advocated the bombing of Hanoi in an attempt to persuade North Vietnam to cut off supplies to the NLF.



Curtis LeMay, the commander of the US air force, argued that by using the latest technology, North Vietnam could be blasted "back to the Stone Age." Others pointed out that "terror" raids on civilian populations during the Second World War had not proved successful and claimed that a better strategy would be to bomb selected targets such as military bases and fuel depots.

Lyndon B. Johnson preferred the latter proposal but was aware he would have difficulty convincing the American public and the rest of the world that such action was justified. He therefore gave permission for a plan to be put into operation that he surmised would eventually enable him to carry out the bombing raids on North Vietnam.

Operation Plan 34A involved the sending of Asian mercenaries into North Vietnam to carry out acts of sabotage and the kidnapping or killing of communist officials. As part of this plan, it was decided to send US destroyers into North Vietnamese waters to obtain information on their naval defences. On August 2, 1964, the US destroyer, "Maddox" was fired upon by three North Vietnamese torpedo boats in the Gulf of Tonkin. In retaliation, "Maddox" fired back and hit all three, one of which sank. The "Maddox" then retreated into international waters but the next day it was ordered to return to the Gulf of Tonkin.

Soon after entering North Vietnamese waters, Captain Herrick reported that he was under attack. However, later he sent a message that raised doubts about this: "Review of action makes reported contacts and torpedoes fired appear doubtful. Freak weather reports and over-eager sonar men may have accounted for many reports. No actual sightings by "Maddox". Suggest complete evaluation before further action."



Johnson now had the excuse he had been waiting for and ignored Captain Herrick's second message. He ordered the bombing of four North Vietnamese torpedo-boat bases and an oil-storage depot that had been planned three months previously.

President Johnson then went on television and told the American people that: "Repeated acts of violence against the armed forces of the United States must be met not only with alert defence, but with a positive reply. That reply is being given as I speak tonight."

The Congress approved Johnson's decision to bomb North Vietnam and passed what has become known as the Gulf of Tonkin resolution by the Senate by 88 votes to 2 and in the House of Representatives by 416 to 0. This resolution authorised the President to take all necessary measures against Vietnam and the NLF.

Johnson's belief that the bombing raid on North Vietnam in August, 1964, would persuade Ho Chi Minh to cut off all aid to the NLF was unfounded. In the run-up to the November election, the NLF carried out a series of attacks and only two days before the election, the US air base near Saigon was mortared and four Americans were killed.



Barry Goldwater, the right-wing Republican candidate for the presidency, called for an escalation of the war against the North Vietnamese. In comparison to Goldwater, Lyndon B. Johnson was seen as the 'peace' candidate. People feared that Goldwater would send troops to fight in Vietnam. Johnson, on the other hand, argued that he was not willing: "to send American boys nine or ten thousand miles away from home to do what Asian boys ought to be doing for themselves."

In the election of November, 1964, the voters decided to reject Goldwater's aggressive policies against communism and Johnson won a landslide victory. What the American public did not know was that President Johnson was waiting until the election was over before carrying out the policies that had been advocated by his Republican opponent, Barry Goldwater.

Additional Sources:

www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk
www.history.navy.mil
www.welcomehomeday.org
www.yale.edu
campus.northpark.edu
giving.uoregon.edu
teachpol.tcnj.edu

2 posted on 08/03/2003 12:16:41 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Gone Camping.)
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To: SAMWolf
On this Day In History


Birthdates which occurred on August 03:
1753 Charles Earl Stanhope, England, radical politician/scientist
1811 Elisha Graves Otis inventor (safe elevator)
1851 Lady Isabella Caroline Somerset temperance leader
1867 Stanley Earl Baldwin, (C) British PM (1923-24, 1924-29, 1935-37)
1871 Vernon Louis Parrington critic/educator/author (Pulitzer 1928)
1872 Haakon VII Charlottenlund Denmark, King of Norway
1884 Louis Gruenberg near Brest Litovsk Poland, composer (Daniel Jazz)
1887 Rupert Brooke British WW I poet (1914)
1894 Harry Heilmann SF Cal, baseball hall of famer outfielder (Detroit)
1900 Ernie Pyle correspondant during WW II
1900 John T Scopes Tennessee teacher convicted for teaching evolution
1901 John Stennis (Sen-D-Miss)
1902 Habib Bourguiba 1st president of Tunisia
1902 Judson Laire NYC, actor/singer (Papa-Mama, Adm Broadway Revue)
1902 Ray Block France, orch leader (Ed Sullivan, Jackie Gleason)
1905 Dolores Del Rio Mexico, actress (What Price Glory?)
1907 Irene Tedrow Denver Colo, actress (Lucy-Dennis the Menace, Mr Novak)
1918 James MacGregor Burns political writer (The Lion & the Fox)
1920 Maria Karnilova Hartford Ct, actress (Olga-Ivan the Terrible)
1920 P.D. James mystery writer (Cover Her Face)
1921 Hayden Carruth Waterbury Ct, novelist (Crow & Heart)
1921 Marilyn Maxwell actress (East of Sumatra)
1923 Anne Klein fashion designer (Anne Klein II)
1924 Leon Uris US, novelist (Exodus, QB VII)
1926 Tony Bennett Queens NY, singer (Left a body part in SF)
1927 Gordon Scott Portland Oregon, actor (Tarzan & the Trappers)
1929 Bethel Leslie NYC, entertainer (Capt Newman MD, Rabbit Trap)
1930 James Komack NYC, writer/director/actor (Courtship of Eddie's Father)
1931 Alex Cord actor (Brotherhood, Fire, Street Asylum)
1935 Georgi S Shonin cosmonaut (Soyuz 6)
1935 Richard D Lamm (Gov-D-Colo)
1938 George Memmoli NYC, actor (Earl-Hello Larry)
1938 Terry "5 Wigs" Wogan British talk show host (Irish Days)
1940 John W Carlin (Gov-D-KS)
1940 Lance Alworth Houston Tx, NFL hall of famer (Charger, Cowboys)
1940 Martin Sheen actor (Subject Was Roses, Wall St)
1941 Beverly Lee Passaic NJ, singer (Shirelles-Soldier Boy)
1941 Martha Stewart cookbook author/actress (Those Two)
1945 Ron Hendren Pinehurst NC, TV host (Entertainment Tonight)
1950 John Landis director (Twilight Zone)
1950 Waldemar Cierpinski German DR, marathoner (Olympic-gold-1976, 80)
1951 Marcel Dionne Qu‚bec, NHL center (LA Kings, NY Rangers)
1952 Jay North North Hollywood Calif, actor (Dennis the Menace, Maya)
1953 Ian Bairnson Shetland Isles Scotland, guitarist (Alan Parsons Project, Pilot)
1954 Denise Craig WBL forward (Dayton Rockettes, NY Stars)
1956 Kirk Brandon rocker (Theatre of Hate, Spear of Destiny-Outland)
1959 Victoria Jackson Miami Fla, actress (Casual Sex, SNL)
1960 Tim Mayotte Springfield Mass, tennis player (Olympic-silver-1988)
1962 Tina Lehtola Finland, women's ski jumper (world's record holder)
1963 Carlo Imperato Bronx, actor (Fame)
1963 James Hetfield heavy metal rocker (Metallica-Helpless)
1966 Christine Richters Fullerton Ca, playmate (May, 1986)
1967 John Femia Bkln NY, actor (Square Pegs, Hello Larry)
1974 Jenny Beck actress (Claire Carroll-Guns & Paradise)





Deaths which occurred on August 03:
1460 James II of Scotland was killed by a cannon's explosion.
1916 Sir Roger Casement, Irish nationalist (Easter uprising 1916), hanged for treason at 51
1924 Joseph Conrad, Polish/British writer (Heart of Darkness), dies at 66
1954 Colette France, novelist (Claudine), dies at 81
1964 Flannery O'Connor, writer (Good Man is Hard to Find), dies at 39
1966 Lenny Bruce comedian, dies of a morphine overdose
1983 Carolyn Jones actress (Morticia-Addams Family), dies at 54 of cancer





Reported: MISSING in ACTION

1965 BOWER JOSEPH E. ELY NV.
1967 GOPP THOMAS ALAN NEW LONDON OH.
[SURVIVORS EXTRACTED SAY SUBJ DEAD]
1967 MC GRATH JAMES P. CHICAGO IL.
[SURVIVORS EXTRACTED SAY SUBJ DEAD]
1967 NEWCOMB WALLACE G. PAINTED POST NY.
[03/14/73 RELEASED BY DRV, ALIVE IN 98]
1967 NAHAN JOHN B. III ALLEGAN MI.
[SURVIVORS EXTRACTED SAID SUBJ DEAD]
1967 WOLPE JACK NEWBURGH NY.
[SURVIVORS EXTRACTED SAY SUBJ DEAD]
1970 ANSON ROBERT
[08/23/70 RELEASED]


POW / MIA Data & Bios supplied by
the P.O.W. NETWORK. Skidmore, MO. USA.




On this day...
0881 Battle at Saucourt: French King Louis III beats the Vikings
1492 Columbus sets sail from Palos, Spain for "Indies"
1596 David Fabricius discovers light variation of Mira (1st variable star)
1678 Robert LaSalle builds 1st ship in America, Griffon
1807 The trial of Aaron Burr begins. He is accused of plotting the secession of New England.
1852 1st intercollegiate rowing race, Harvard beats Yale by 4 lengths
1860 American Canoe Association founded at Lake George NY
1863 Governor Seymour asks Lincoln to suspend draft in NY
1863 Saratoga Racetrack (NY) opens
1881 US Nation Lawn Tennis Association removes "Nation" from name
1882 Congress passes 1st law restricting immigration
1914 Germany invades Belgium & declares war on France in WW I
1914 Yankee catcher Nunamaker throws out 3 would be stealers in 1 inning
1921 1st aerial cropdusting (Troy Ohio to kill caterpillars)
1921 Due to a technicality, 8 Chicago White Sox accused in the Black Sox scandal are acquited, however Landis throws them out of baseball
1928 Ray Barbuti saves US team from defeat in Amsterdam Olympics track events by winning 400 m (47.8 sec)
1930 2nd time in 1930, Chuck Klein of Phillies hits in 26 straight games
1933 Yanks are shut out for 1st time after 308 games
1940 Lithuanian SSR is accepted into the USSR
1943 During World War II U.S. General George S. Patton slapped an Army private hospitalized for battle fatigue accusing the young man of cowardice.
1944 Auschwitz-Birkenau concentration camp gases 4 000 gypsies
1949 Basketball Assoc of America & National Basketball League merge to form the National Basketball Association
1952 15th Olympic games close in Helsinki Finland
1953 Frank Blair becomes news anchor of the Today Show
1954 1st VTOL (Vertical Take-off & Land) flown
1955 Automobile Association of America ends support of auto racing
1955 Hurricane Connie begins pounding US for 11 days
1956 Willie Williams of the US sets 100 meter record at 10.1
1958 USS Nautilus begins 1st crossing of Arctic Ocean under icecap
1959 AL beats NL 5-3 in 27th All Star Game (Dodger Stadium)
1960 Niger gains independence from France
1962 NY Met Frank Thomas hits his 6th HR in 3 games
1963 Allan Sherman releases "Hello Mudda, Hello Fadda"
1963 Beatles final performance at the Cavern Club in Liverpool
1963 Great Train Robbery-$2.5 M ($3.25 M) robbed
1969 Reds beats Phillies 19-17
1970 4 day NFL strike ends
1970 Hurricane "Celia" becomes most expensive Gulf storm in history
1970 Mairiam Hargrave of Yorkshire, passes her driving test on 40th try
1971 Paul McCartney announces the formation of his group Wings
1973 Flash fire kills 51 at amusement park. (Isle of Man, UK)
1974 Guitarist Jeff Baxter quits Steely Dan & joins Doobie Brothers
1975 500 drown when 2 river boats collide & sink in China's West River
1975 Louisiana Superdome is dedicated
1977 Radio Shack issues a press release introducing the TRS-80 computer 25 existed, within weeks thousands were ordered
1979 Fastest jai-alai shot (188 mph), Jose Arieto at Newport Jai Alai, RI
1980 Duke Snider & Al Kaline enter baseball's Hall of Fame
1981 Air Traffic Controllers (PATCO) begin their strike
1982 Clyde King replaces Gene Michaels as Yankee manager
1983 John Sain of South Bend, Ind builds 3.91 m house of cards
1984 365.7 million shares traded in NY Stock Exchange
1985 "Nihilator" set harness pacing mile (1:49.6) in East Rutherford, NJ
1987 Chicago Bears beat Dallas Cowboys 17-6 in London, England (NFL expo)
1987 Discovery in Orbital Processing Facility is powered up for STS-26
1988 Skip Storch swims 246 km of Hudson River from Albany to NYC
1989 5th jockey to win 6,000 races (Jorge Valesquez)
1989 Lawrence Delisle drives his 4 kids into river
1989 Rickey Henderson sets AL mark of 50 steals in 9 seasons
1989 Cincinnati Reds send record 20 men to bat with a record 16 hits in 1 inning as they score 14 runs in the 1st inning
1990 NY Yankee Kevin Mass sets record with 10th HR in 1st 72 at bats
1990 Radio Kuwait goes off the air, due to the Iraqi invasion
1990 US announces commitment of Naval forces to Gulf regions
1990 For the 3rd time in 1990 a no-hitter is broken up with 2 outs in the 8th inning. Doug Drabek of Pitts still beats Phila 11-0
1991 Pan Am games open in Havana





Holidays
Note: Some Holidays are only applicable on a given "day of the week"

New Zealand : Arbor Day (1872)
Niger : Independence Day (1960)
Tunisia : Bourguiba's Birthday (1902)
Arizona, Michigan : American Family Day - - - - - ( Sunday )
Italy : Joust of the Quintana (1st Sunday) - - - - - ( Sunday )
Bahamas, Barbados, Turks & Caicos Island : Emancipation Day (1838) ( Monday )
British Commonwealth : Bank Holiday ( Monday )
Canada : Civic Holiday (1st Monday) ( Monday )
Colorado : Colorado Day (1876) ( Monday )
Jamaica : Independence Day (1962) ( Monday )
St Christopher-Nevis-Anguilla : August Monday ( Monday )
US : National Smile Week begins ( Monday )
Grasmere England : Rush-Bearing Day ( Saturday )
National Psychiatric Technician Week Begins
Romance Awareness Month





Religious Observances
RC : Commemoration of Finding of the Body of St Stephen, martyr





Religious History
1739 English revivalist George Whitefield wrote in a letter: 'I am no friend to sinless perfection. I believe the existence (though not the dominion) of sin remains in the hearts of the greatest believers.'
1858 Birth of Maltbie D. Babcock, American Presbyterian clergyman. His pastoral work centered around Maryland and New York, but he is better remembered today as author of the well-known hymn, "This is My Father's World."
1902 Birth of Martin Noth, German Lutheran Old Testament scholar. His researches concentrated on the "history-of-traditions" approach to analyzing and understanding the Old Testament writings.
1944 Lutheran theologian and Nazi martyr Dietrich Bonhoeffer wrote in a letter from prison: 'The Church must not underestimate the importance of human example; it is not abstract argument, but example, that gives its word emphasis and power.'
1959 English apologist C.S. Lewis wrote in a letter: 'When we lose one blessing, another is often most unexpectedly given in its place.'

Source: William D. Blake. ALMANAC OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH. Minneapolis: Bethany House, 1987.





Thought for the day :
"The best prophet of the future is the past."




You might be computer illiterate if...
you don't use Windows because you don't believe in icons.




Todays Murphys law...(Technology Laws)
The primary function of the design engineer is to make things difficult for the fabricator and impossible for the serviceman.




Cliff Clavin says, it's a little known fact that...
The longest name in the Bible Mahershalalbaz (Isaiah 8:1).
8 posted on 08/03/2003 6:27:31 AM PDT by Valin (America is a vast conspiracy to make you happy.)
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To: SAMWolf
Good morning. I wonder what the left will say is Operation Iraqi Freedom's version of the Tonkin Gulf Resolution, since they just love comparing Iraq to Vietnam.
26 posted on 08/03/2003 9:08:08 AM PDT by Sparta (Send the Palestinians to their homeland, Jordan.)
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To: sphinx; Toirdhealbheach Beucail; curmudgeonII; roderick; Notforprophet; river rat; csvset; ...
Gulf of Tonkin ping.

If you want on or off the Western Civilization Military History ping list, let me know.
28 posted on 08/03/2003 9:09:45 AM PDT by Sparta (Send the Palestinians to their homeland, Jordan.)
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