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To: JasonC

"Jews waged a terrorist war for independence against British troops."

Huh?

What Israel waged was a true Insurgency -- they targeted the British Military not civilians. The US government, and most analysts, define terrorism as targeting civilians.

"The 1956 war, when the Israelis were the ones doing the attacking, in concert with France and Britain, is left out."

I guess by your definition the US was the one doing the attacking in Iraq. You appear to have forgiotten the numerous UN resolutions Egypt violated. Sound familiar?

"On August 9, 1949, the UN mixed armistice commission upheld Israel's complaint that egypt was illegally blocking the canal. un negotiator Ralph Bunche declared: "There should be free movement for legitimate shipping and no vestiges of the wartime blockade should be allowed to remain, as they are inconsistent with both the letter and the spirit of the armistice agreements."

On September 1, 1951, the security council ordered egypt to open the canal to Israeli shipping. egypt refused to comply.

The egyptian foreign minister, muhammad salah al-din, said early in 1954:

The arab people will not be embarrassed to declare: We shall not be satisfied except by the final obliteration of Israel from the map of the middle east (Al-Misri, April 12, 1954)."

You also must be unaware of the numerous attacks on Israel from Egyptian Fedayeen prior to 1956 and the massing of armies on Israel's borders.

"Israeli Ambassador to the un, Abba Eban, explained the provocations to the security council on October 30:

During the six years, during which this belligerency has operated in violation of the armistice agreement, there have occurred 1,843 cases of armed robbery and theft, 1,339 cases of armed clashes with egyptian armed forces, 435 cases of incursion from egyptian controlled territory, and 172 cases of sabotage perpetrated by egyptian military units and fedayeen in Israel. As a result of these actions of egyptian hostility within Israel, 364 Israelis were wounded and 101 killed. In 1956 alone, as a result of this aspect of egyptian aggression, 28 Israelis were killed and 127 wounded."

http://amichai.com/war/process/56war.html

In your mind does only the US and the West have the right to self-preservation via self-defense?


24 posted on 08/24/2005 10:32:12 AM PDT by dervish (tagline for rent, inquire within)
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To: dervish
They blew up hotels, civilians were killed, it was a terrorist war. They did not distinguish themselves as combatants, did not observe the laws of war, etc. Facts are stubborn things. I draw no greater conclusions from it, Israel is independent by right of conquest regardless of the crimes of some in the distant past. But there were such crimes at Israel's founding and before, and it is lying to maintain otherwise. Lying for which there is no need.

Yes the US attacked Iraq. No the UN doesn't have anything to do with any of it, being a toothless talking shop with no relevance to the control of territories or the safety of peoples. Israel, Britain, and France attack Egypt in 1956. Bare fact, nothing more to be read into it. Nowhere did I say or imply that attacking enemies is forbidden by anyone or anything. On the contrary, I explicitly said disputing the outcome of the last conquest is called waging war.

You appear rhetorically to buy into legalistic theories you don't not actually believe and that have no operative force in the real world. You also avoid, distort, or deny obvious historical facts for reasons apparently connected to apologetics about them. You impute inferences about rights of self preservation etc where none have been so much as hinted. To me, all are symptoms of the same underlying problem. A reluctance to live in the real world, taking facts as they are.

No doubt the legalistic fantasies involved weren't made by you, and you are kicking against them. Fine by me, but why live inside that straightjacket at all? Things are so much clearer out here. Where no man needs to ask for what he can defend with his own hands.

26 posted on 08/24/2005 11:06:11 AM PDT by JasonC
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