Could Helicopters Have Saved People From the Top of the Trade Center?

Wall St. Journal ^ | Oct 23, 2001 | SCOT J. PALTROW and QUEENA SOOK KIM

[The Raven]

NEW YORK -- When a plane hit the World Trade Center's north tower, Stephen L. Roach phoned his wife twice from the 105th floor and got their home answering machine. In one message, he said he loved her. In the other, Isabel Roach says she could hear the desperate shouts of her husband's coworkers at bond-broker Cantor Fitzgerald LP: "Try the roof! Try the roof!"

[The Raven]

It all happened so fast. Hopefully a "lesson learned" that we will never need.

[BunnySlippers]

Bump

[Ed_in_NJ]

bttt

[error99]

Wasn't it reported on 9/11 that some people made phone calls from the roof?
This article seems to say that no one actually made it to the roof...

[Wm Bach]

Wow! Slapped around by synchonicity again. I was just pondering the lack of any helo rescues from the 9-11 attack in the restless wee hours of this morning - Why no one was saved from the roof.

Thanks for posting the answer.

[MaxwellWolf]

Port Authority's Twin Towers had the status of state government property and therefore were legally exempt from the fire code Why isn't govt subject to the same fire code regulations as a private organization?

[ipfreely]

Hindsight is always 20/20 or most of the time...

The author of this article seems to be suffering from 20/400 hindsight. You can't save 10,000 or 1,000 for that matter with a helicopter from a rooftop. It's probably best to not waste already wasted government time with less effective ideas.

[Cicero]

I'd wondered this myself. It was the only possible way to get people out of the floors above where the planes went through. So it was a turf war between the police and fire departments.

[KirklandJunction]

Helis saved a lot of people off the top of the burning hotel in Las Vegas decades ago.

[jimtorr]

Mr. Antenen of the police department says he doesn't see a need to review the city's policy on rooftop rescues.
Mr. Gribbon says the fire department "will probably look at a lot of the things we do." But such a review won't necessarily lead to changes that would encourage rooftop rescues, he says.

A number of large cities, including Los Angeles as noted in the article, plans for rooftop rescues from tall buildings. They also plan for large fires engulfing several floors at once. Why does the City of New York allow traditional rivalries between the Police and Fire Departments to endanger public safety? Will this be allowed to continue?

On Sept. 11, falling debris knocked out the 22nd-floor security center's equipment just after the plane hit...

Incredible. What kind of planning numbskull puts a "security" center anywhere but in the deepest interior of a building?

[ken5050]

Because of al the jet fuel..the smoke and fire were intense......I doubt if a chopper pilot could have be able to orient himself in all the smoke..also the intense heat causes a chimney effect of hot air.....almost impossible to keep the chopper stable.....so, in this case..no way....remember also that NYC has fears of a chopper crashing onto the streets The Pan Am building was designed with a heliport on the roof..to take people to JFK..an accident occured...parts of the chopper went over the side..killed several people in midtown...

[lonestar]

The author of this article seems to be suffering from 20/400 hindsight. You can't save 10,000 or 1,000 for that matter with a helicopter from a rooftop.

True, but if they can save 10 or 1, and you are the one would it not be worth all the time and planning?

Love your name. (What's that running down your leg?) LOL.

[janee]

Security guards ON TOP of the WTC, with anti-aircraft missile capability, would have saved lives. The 1993 bombing attack was a warning.

Makes sense to have been watching the skies (several minor attacks have been made by homeland crazies with small planes). Posting armed security at all the ground-floor entrances of banks, government buildings etc. is a given. No armed security atop the Pentagon? All this military power and yet so vulnerable.

God bless us and especially those we trust.

[pittsburgh gop guy]

As a former firefighter (albeit, not FDNY), I can honestly say that I think that the chances of successful helicopter rescues on 9/11 were VERY SMALL, and might actually have endangered more lives. Plus, I think it would have created havoc as hundreds that are trapped try to push to the roof. The thinking of the FDNY on this is right, get people to go lower or stay in place and wait as we put the fire out. Don't have people go higher, unless they need to because fire necessitates it.

"Helicopters couldn't have saved anyone from the top of the south tower, NYPD pilots say. That building's roof was completely obscured by a 100-foot layer of dense smoke blown from the north tower by wind from the northwest."

"...a rescue from the north tower would have been difficult but possible, Mr. Semendinger and other veteran helicopter-rescue pilots say."

[no-s]

Why isn't govt subject to the same fire code regulations as a private organization?

I think this was the key point curtailing attempts to come to a reasonable compromise. Contrast this with reports of EPA regs endangering firefighters out west by interfering with water pickups from streams.

[Nitro]

Most MANPADS (Man Portable Air Defense Systems) require an Infrared lock onto the heat plume exiting the jet engines. As this attack came head-on it is highly unlikely any useful deterent effect could have been achieved!

Also the wreckage and flaming Av-gas raining down, the results of a successful intercept, would have likely caused more deaths that it could have saved!

[janee]

A new day and I learn something new. Cool information. Thanks for your expertise!

[Nitro]

Happy to be useful. Anyway isn't that why we all come to FReep, to exchange info?

[lonestar]

I wasn't arguing with anyone. I just said that if you're the person who is stranded, no amount of rescue effort is too much.

I do have arguement with the people who a month later, start second guessing what was done that, or any other, day.