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Could Helicopters Have Saved People From the Top of the Trade Center?
Wall St. Journal ^
| Oct 23, 2001
| SCOT J. PALTROW and QUEENA SOOK KIM
Posted on 10/23/2001 4:45:07 AM PDT by The Raven
Edited on 04/22/2004 11:45:38 PM PDT by Jim Robinson.
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It all happened so fast. Hopefully a "lesson learned" that we will never need.
1
posted on
10/23/2001 4:45:07 AM PDT
by
The Raven
To: The Raven
Bump
To: The Raven
bttt
3
posted on
10/23/2001 4:52:02 AM PDT
by
Ed_in_NJ
To: The Raven
Wasn't it reported on 9/11 that some people made phone calls from the roof?
This article seems to say that no one actually made it to the roof...
4
posted on
10/23/2001 4:55:01 AM PDT
by
error99
Comment #5 Removed by Moderator
To: The Raven
Wow! Slapped around by synchonicity again. I was just pondering the lack of any helo rescues from the 9-11 attack in the restless wee hours of this morning - Why no one was saved from the roof.
Thanks for posting the answer.
6
posted on
10/23/2001 4:59:17 AM PDT
by
Wm Bach
To: The Raven
Port Authority's Twin Towers had the status of state government property and therefore were legally exempt from the fire code Why isn't govt subject to the same fire code regulations as a private organization?
To: The Raven
Hindsight is always 20/20 or most of the time...
The author of this article seems to be suffering from 20/400 hindsight. You can't save 10,000 or 1,000 for that matter with a helicopter from a rooftop. It's probably best to not waste already wasted government time with less effective ideas.
8
posted on
10/23/2001 6:02:45 AM PDT
by
ipfreely
To: Wm Bach
I'd wondered this myself. It was the only possible way to get people out of the floors above where the planes went through. So it was a turf war between the police and fire departments.
9
posted on
10/23/2001 6:03:07 AM PDT
by
Cicero
To: The Raven
Helis saved a lot of people off the top of the burning hotel in Las Vegas decades ago.
To: The Raven
Mr. Antenen of the police department says he doesn't see a need to review the city's policy on rooftop rescues.
Mr. Gribbon says the fire department "will probably look at a lot of the things we do." But such a review won't necessarily lead to changes that would encourage rooftop rescues, he says. A number of large cities, including Los Angeles as noted in the article, plans for rooftop rescues from tall buildings. They also plan for large fires engulfing several floors at once. Why does the City of New York allow traditional rivalries between the Police and Fire Departments to endanger public safety? Will this be allowed to continue?
On Sept. 11, falling debris knocked out the 22nd-floor security center's equipment just after the plane hit...
Incredible. What kind of planning numbskull puts a "security" center anywhere but in the deepest interior of a building?
11
posted on
10/23/2001 6:18:30 AM PDT
by
jimtorr
To: jimtorr
Because of al the jet fuel..the smoke and fire were intense......I doubt if a chopper pilot could have be able to orient himself in all the smoke..also the intense heat causes a chimney effect of hot air.....almost impossible to keep the chopper stable.....so, in this case..no way....remember also that NYC has fears of a chopper crashing onto the streets The Pan Am building was designed with a heliport on the roof..to take people to JFK..an accident occured...parts of the chopper went over the side..killed several people in midtown...
12
posted on
10/23/2001 6:30:17 AM PDT
by
ken5050
To: ipfreely
The author of this article seems to be suffering from 20/400 hindsight. You can't save 10,000 or 1,000 for that matter with a helicopter from a rooftop. True, but if they can save 10 or 1, and you are the one would it not be worth all the time and planning?
Love your name. (What's that running down your leg?) LOL.
13
posted on
10/23/2001 6:41:29 AM PDT
by
lonestar
To: The Raven
Security guards ON TOP of the WTC, with anti-aircraft missile capability, would have saved lives. The 1993 bombing attack was a warning.
Makes sense to have been watching the skies (several minor attacks have been made by homeland crazies with small planes). Posting armed security at all the ground-floor entrances of banks, government buildings etc. is a given. No armed security atop the Pentagon? All this military power and yet so vulnerable.
God bless us and especially those we trust.
14
posted on
10/23/2001 6:52:00 AM PDT
by
janee
To: lonestar
As a former firefighter (albeit, not FDNY), I can honestly say that I think that the chances of successful helicopter rescues on 9/11 were VERY SMALL, and might actually have endangered more lives. Plus, I think it would have created havoc as hundreds that are trapped try to push to the roof. The thinking of the FDNY on this is right, get people to go lower or stay in place and wait as we put the fire out. Don't have people go higher, unless they need to because fire necessitates it.
"Helicopters couldn't have saved anyone from the top of the south tower, NYPD pilots say. That building's roof was completely obscured by a 100-foot layer of dense smoke blown from the north tower by wind from the northwest."
"...a rescue from the north tower would have been difficult but possible, Mr. Semendinger and other veteran helicopter-rescue pilots say."
To: MaxwellWolf
Why isn't govt subject to the same fire code regulations as a private organization?I think this was the key point curtailing attempts to come to a reasonable compromise. Contrast this with reports of EPA regs endangering firefighters out west by interfering with water pickups from streams.
16
posted on
10/23/2001 7:27:53 AM PDT
by
no-s
To: janee
Most MANPADS (Man Portable Air Defense Systems) require an Infrared lock onto the heat plume exiting the jet engines. As this attack came head-on it is highly unlikely any useful deterent effect could have been achieved!
Also the wreckage and flaming Av-gas raining down, the results of a successful intercept, would have likely caused more deaths that it could have saved!
17
posted on
10/23/2001 8:20:33 AM PDT
by
Nitro
To: Nitro
A new day and I learn something new. Cool information. Thanks for your expertise!
18
posted on
10/23/2001 9:55:11 AM PDT
by
janee
To: janee
Happy to be useful. Anyway isn't that why we all come to FReep, to exchange info?
19
posted on
10/23/2001 10:43:05 AM PDT
by
Nitro
To: pittsburgh gop guy
I wasn't arguing with anyone. I just said that if you're
the person who is stranded, no amount of rescue effort is too much.
I do have arguement with the people who a month later, start second guessing what was done that, or any other, day.
20
posted on
10/23/2001 2:37:00 PM PDT
by
lonestar
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