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"The Vagina Monologues" And The Clash Of Civilizations
Toogood Reports ^ | October 24, 2001 | Henry Makow

Posted on 10/24/2001 8:37:51 AM PDT by Starmaker

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To: sirgawain
Ensler and her entourage try to position this pitiable lesbian primer in the mainstream. Gloria Steinem writes "men as well as women will emerge from these pages feeling more free within themselves and about each other."

Feeling more free within themselves? Yikes! I'm feeling sick reading about it.

41 posted on 10/24/2001 1:07:30 PM PDT by Victoria Delsoul
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To: steve-b
”The fact that some people will exploit this terrorism to advance a political agenda (e.g. Falwell, Robertson, and now Comrade Makow) is sickening.”

Let’s define our terms here. You claim “exploitation.” A Christian would claim “explanation.” After all, the Bible has numerous passages in which God withdraws his protection from Israel because of their sins. As a result, they are defeated in battle, enslaved and/or dispersed. Of course Atheists consider these fairy tales. However, Christians take these Bible passages as a warning that God can withdraw His protection from a people if they fall into sin.

One of America’s biggest exports is our “culture.” This consists of both tangible culture such as Big Macs, Coke and jeans, and intangibles such as music, movies, plays and books. Muslins hate us for many things, but one of the things they hate us for is our culture, and the way it has “polluted” theirs. It’s an indisputable fact.

Now lots of Americans may claim that our culture is vastly superior to theirs. And I would agree. However, I am repelled by some aspects of our culture and the effect it has on our young. Chastity has a hard time competing with promiscuity, especially when the hormones are raging and popular culture tells you that it’s cool to screw anything that moves. Modesty has a hard time of it in an MTV world.

The cheap and easy shot at Christians seems to be characteristic of a certain brand of Libertarian. I’m not going to let it pass.

42 posted on 10/24/2001 1:41:30 PM PDT by moneyrunner
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To: moneyrunner
The cheap and easy shot at Christians

Puh-leeze. Makow is no Christian -- in fact, he is a disgrace to Christianity, just as Osama bin Laden is a disgrace to Islam.

43 posted on 10/24/2001 1:44:23 PM PDT by steve-b
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To: That Poppins Woman
So, our plays about lesbianism are somehow worse than Islam's standard practice of slavery, homosexuality and child molestation?

Complaining about the former is useful to Makow's political agenda. Complaining about the latter isn't.

It's the same reason Jesse Jackson blew his top about some stupid Toyota ad but couldn't care less about the Sudanese slave trade.

44 posted on 10/24/2001 1:49:29 PM PDT by steve-b
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To: steve-b
”Puh-leeze. Makow is no Christian -- in fact, he is a disgrace to Christianity, just as Osama bin Laden is a disgrace to Islam.”

I have no knowledge of Makow’s religion. I do, however, know the religious persuasion of both Fallwell and Robertson and you slimed them I’m not going to let it pass. With regard to Makow, his criticism of “the Vagina Monologues” is valid.

WE consider Osama to be a fringe character (possibly for prudential reasons: we don’t want to fight too many enemies all at once). Based on the reaction of Muslims to Osama bin Laden, there seems to be some disagreement between your opinion and theirs. I would take the Muslim’s assessment of Osama “disgrace” over yours, despite your obvious expertise based on your in-depth immersion into the study and practice of Islam.

45 posted on 10/24/2001 1:55:54 PM PDT by moneyrunner
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To: Victoria Delsoul
As a professional artist I believe and support artistic freedom. No one is forcing thousands of people to buy tickets supporting several ongoing productions. The fact is that it is selling. A positive point is that the text of The Vagina Monologues has been used in 2 benefits to raise funds for organizations that combat sexual violence (NYC 1998-London 1999). The sad part is that it has become a virtual freakshow of celebrities who refill the vacant castings as fast as free refills at 7-11. Check out vaginamonologues.com for a list. Would I perform in it? Not likely. I won't take any work that I feel my family can't watch comfortably (not surprisingly I am out of work at the moment). But reality is that this from of Contemporary Art Theatre is what the public is buying.
46 posted on 10/24/2001 2:00:02 PM PDT by psycho-sis
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To: moneyrunner
I do, however, know the religious persuasion of both Fallwell and Robertson and you slimed them

Nope; they slimed their own selves by attempting to exploit an act of mass murder for their own personal agendas (rather like Sarah Brady after Columbine, but even more offensively given the larger scale of the terrorist attack).

With regard to Makow, his criticism of "the Vagina Monologues" is valid.

Nice attempt at changing the subject, but it won't work. The issue is Makow's insinuation that the attack on the US is somehow justified because it has placed the Constitution above Makow's personal preferences.

Based on the reaction of Muslims to Osama bin Laden, there seems to be some disagreement between your opinion and theirs.

The fact that civilized people often find themselves in disagreement with street savages is hardly surprising.

47 posted on 10/24/2001 2:03:27 PM PDT by steve-b
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To: Starmaker
FWIW, I go to local coffee shop over by the university sometimes, hang out and catch a nice caffinated buzz. Customers and waitstaff are very friendly, smiles are returned and casual conversations and eye contact are the norm. Its a very loose atmosphere.

Several Fridays ago I was in for a quickie and the street, sidewalks and shop were packed with hordes of women, young and middle aged. Eye contact was avoided, simple comments were deflected and basically, I was ignored as if I had plague or something.

I found out after leaving that the University Theatre the next building over had just let out after a performance of the V. Monolouges.

48 posted on 10/24/2001 2:14:12 PM PDT by Rebelbase
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To: steve-b
”Nope; they [Robertson & Falwell] slimed their own selves by attempting to exploit an act of mass murder for their own personal agendas (rather like Sarah Brady after Columbine, but even more offensively given the larger scale of the terrorist attack).”

Get a grip. They expressed their opinion. You obviously disagree. I have some sympathy for their views. But they have the right to express their opinion. Even if it contradicts the yours. That old Constitution, you know.

”The issue is Makow's insinuation that the attack on the US is somehow justified because it has placed the Constitution above Makow's personal preferences.”

Your grammar and syntax are scrambled, and you obviously can’t read. He in no way justifies the attack on the US.

”The fact that civilized people often find themselves in disagreement with street savages is hardly surprising.”

Not sure I would classify you as civilized. You need a lot of work.

49 posted on 10/24/2001 2:14:24 PM PDT by moneyrunner
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To: Rebelbase
But what are you saying? That female theatregoers are rude when they need a coffee? Are we assuming that these women were all lesbians and that is why you were deflected? How many lesbians do you know and do they all act the same? I guess the content of the show could rile a few women up but personally I don't see what is so liberating about yelling penis and c-nt out loud repeatedly. I guess you need to find a coffeehouse not so close to a liberal campus that promotes this crap.
50 posted on 10/24/2001 2:20:30 PM PDT by psycho-sis
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To: moneyrunner
He in no way justifies the attack on the US.

***BBBZZZZTTTTT!!!***

"This play partly exemplifies why radical Islam has declared war on America."

"Muslim fundamentalists believe their culture is threatened. They are fighting to preserve their wives and children who are the future. If their wives are infected by our homosexuality, they will insist on becoming "independent" like men. Their birth rate will plummet like ours has, and their families and culture will disintegrate."

"In addition, we are exporting our homosexuality and depravity to the world. Muslim fundamentalists are fighting back."

It is quite evident that, in Makow's view, Osama bin Laden and his associates are simply defeding themselves against the Great Satan. He ought to emigrate to Berkeley or some other place where his anti-Americanism would be welcome.
51 posted on 10/24/2001 2:24:10 PM PDT by steve-b
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To: Starmaker
This is the play that Mayor Rudi Guilliani's 'wife', (Donna Hanover) was starring in at the time of his withdrawl from the senate race against Hitlery!

Some people have no idea of decency.

52 posted on 10/24/2001 2:24:35 PM PDT by Norb2569
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To: steve-b
Look, Gunga Din, understanding your enemy and sympathizing with him are two different things. For example, I understand why Hitler began WW2 and tried to exterminate the Jews. That understanding does not make me sympathetic or a Nazi. You may not understand that, but intelligent people do. We will have a lot harder time winning this war if we go in for mindless rants. Understanding the mind of the enemy will help us win this war.

We need to be able to understand other cultures in order to change them. The alternative is killing the billion followers of Islam, not a project that appeals to a civilized people.

53 posted on 10/24/2001 2:43:40 PM PDT by moneyrunner
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To: psycho-sis
I did'nt "say" anything. I simply said FWIW, and stated what happened. Draw your own conclusions...oh, you already did.
54 posted on 10/24/2001 3:12:36 PM PDT by Rebelbase
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To: moneyrunner
Understanding the mind of the enemy will help us win this war.

[mental image of your explaining to Patton's ghost the importance of "understanding" the Nazi mind]

55 posted on 10/24/2001 4:51:38 PM PDT by steve-b
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To: Zorobabel
"Eve Ensler is the Pied Piper. She is leading woman and the world to a different consciousness of women."

Yeah, the different consciousness that our women are filthy pig sluts.

56 posted on 10/24/2001 5:27:03 PM PDT by Zorobabel
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To: psycho-sis
But reality is that this from of Contemporary Art Theatre is what the public is buying.

Well, that speaks volumes of our cultural decline and moral decay.

57 posted on 10/24/2001 5:27:11 PM PDT by Victoria Delsoul
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To: Starmaker
Hmmm ... Muslim hatred of the clitoris vs. Western adoration of the vagina ...

It's a revealing article -- to say the least --, but the militant Islam of its day also took on Dante's and Shakespeare's Europe.

58 posted on 10/24/2001 5:32:43 PM PDT by x
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To: Starmaker
This stuff is demonic. It seeks to homosexualize the planet earth. We don't need this stuff. Already in Black Amerca there is a vicious divide between males and females. A lot of black music videos are promoting lesbian love. Last year Tisha Cambell-Martin (actress for Martin) wrote a story about black lesbian love. Truly a sick world.
59 posted on 10/24/2001 5:40:59 PM PDT by AMMON-CENTRIST
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To: Don Myers
We are not blowing things up. So don't start saying that we are like the terrorists.

We may not be blowing things up, but we're certainly engaging in far more killing than any terrorist has yet to accomplish. Abortion kills tens of millions, AIDS has infected over a million, and then there's our incredibly high suicide rate caused by a rampant sexual despair that hardly existed two generations ago.

Even an anthrax letter in every mailbox couldn't equal the death rate that we've inflicted on ourselves courtesy of the Sexual Revolution.

60 posted on 10/24/2001 5:47:06 PM PDT by 537 Votes
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