Turkey to try Islamic militants who declared holy war against US

AP | 11/05/01 | SELCAN HACAOGLU

[kattracks]

ANKARA, Turkey, Nov 05, 2001 (AP WorldStream via COMTEX) -- Turkey will try 12 Islamic militants, some of whom attempted to travel to Afghanistan to fight against the United States, on charges of radical Islamic activities, police officials said Monday.

The defendants belong to the banned Islamic group Selefiler of the Wahhabi movement which originated in Saudi Arabia and has served as an inspiration for Osama bin Laden, the prime suspect in the Sept. 11 attacks in the United States.

Police Chief Ali Kalkan of southeastern Gaziantep city said some group members have left Turkey to join a holy war or "jihad" in Afghanistan against the United States. The men were responding to a call by bin Laden's al-Qaida network, he said.

"We caught five of them when they returned from Iran after failing to proceed further," said Kalkan. "Ten others are believed to be either in Iran or may have already reached Afghanistan."

The arrests were made in a raid on a house in Gaziantep two weeks ago. Seven other suspected members of the group were also detained.

The group members were being monitored by police in a crackdown on radical Islam and attracted authorities' attention when some of them suddenly disappeared.

"We learned that they left to fight a jihad against the United States in Afghanistan," Kalkan said.

The 12 defendants will be tried for involvement in radical Islamic activities, which is a crime in predominantly Muslim but fiercely secular Turkey. Prosecutors have released all but one pending trial.

No trial date has been set yet.

The Selefiler was formed in Istanbul more than 10 years ago with the aim of replacing Turkey's secular government with an Islamic state.

Based on a literal translation of the Quran, Wahhabism rejects mysticism and any veneration of saints or their tombs. The puritanical movement, originating in Saudi Arabia, has also served as an inspiration for some Chechen rebels fighting for independence from Russia, and it has alarmed secular officials across the former Soviet Union.

Members of the group have in the past been arrested for arson attacks on government-owned depots that stock alcohol and on trucks carrying beer as well as for carrying arms. Islam forbids the consumption of alcohol.

By SELCAN HACAOGLU Associated Press Writer

Copyright 2001 Associated Press, All rights reserved

[TomSmedley]

-these radical Islamists need to spend more time getting their own acts together--like thinking about whether or not their own spiritual paths are truly religious in nature or whether they just don't want anyone else to enjoy their lives if they don't feel free to think and experience life without a rigid set of rules

A "truly religious" muslim is rigidly committed to an extrinsic set of rules. What he feels is irrelevent. The essence of pure Islam is coercion.

[a_Turk]

Most of the dead are innocent. That's how it always seems to work.

I stand by my comment: "[W]himpy little terrorist enemies." That's how I see Al Kaeda, IRA, ASALA, PKK, RAF (red army faction, not Royal Air Force), etc. What's sick is people using the unfortunate dead as a canvas for their propaganda of hate.

I took issue with your comment: "Go Queen Isabella on the Muslims the world over."

Killing or deporting all Muslims is no different from doing that to another group. How can a reasonable man condone that action be applied to one group but not another? Do you see no contradiction there?

[The Chid]

Boy, this thread got deep real quick! I was just going to remark that the best baklava in Turkey comes from Gaziantep. I had it many times when I was there. The only one better was at this little bakery in Mersin on the waterfront. I wish I could remember the name, but it's been 12 years since I was there. I love the Turkish people. It was a wonderful place to be.

[a_Turk]

Does that include killing all the people of the Muslim faith in Turkey also?

So I ask them and they freak! It's like a parallel al kaeda over here!

[a_Turk]

the best baklava in Turkey comes from Gaziantep

Mmmm. Close my eyes and I'm there. Thanks for your friendly words! I needed a bit of cheering up. Were you a soldier there?

[The Chid]

Air Force. We(me, my wife, and my two sons) lived in Incirlik Village for a year, and then a year on base. We loved it, and plan to go back for a vacation some day.

[a_Turk]

DO WE WANT TO MAKE THIS A THREAD ???
Or is it just too much information??

The Armenian Question

A Myth of Terror
Armenian Atrocities & Terrorism
Armenian Forgeries and Falsifications
Armenians in Ottoman Documents
British Government Restates Position on Armenian genocide allegations
Facts and Discussion Points in the Armenian Allegations
Hitler and the 'Armenian Question'
Let Historians Decide on So-called Genocide
Perpetuating the Genocide Myth
Quote by Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres
Sworn Statement of Albert J. Amateau
The Armenian Issue Revisited
The Armenian-Nazi Collaboration in WW II
The Deportees of Malta and the Armenian QuestionFor information in Turkish on this issue go to: www.ermenisorunu.gen.tr/index-tr.html
Armenian-Azerbaijan Conflict
Briefing Paper of the Embassy of the Republic of Azerbaijan-Section 907 and Azerbaijan-U.S. Relations
Media Coverage of The Azeri Massacres by Armenians
The Massacre of Khojaly: Armenia's Crime Against Humanity


The Jewish/ Turkish Friendship

Story of Turkish Jews
The History of The Turkish Jews
Turkish Jews -- a Part of the Turkish Fabric
The Jews of Khazaria
Related Links

[semaj]

Hats off! Don't mess with the Turks!

[a_Turk]

We loved it, and plan to go back for a vacation some day.

Can't say I blame you. Talk some friends into going with you. Here's a link for some xtra ideas: www.exploreturkey.com

[semaj]

"That you can write off the forced deportation and the deaths of millions of men, women, and children so easily is absolutely horrifying."

As a_Turk said it is history, nothing can be done for the victims accept to apologize, because they are dead. This in it self is terrible. The question I put to you is this: What will we do today to prevent atrocities like this from happening again? Before you answer, contemplate what is happening in the Sudan, horrifying to say the least. Another question: What are you doing about it, or does the fact that the victims this time are black africans... prevent you from being properly horrified?

[father_elijah]

I have personally liberated black Christian slaves in the Sudan by paying their Muslim owners to free them and then helping to get them to some place resembling sanctuary. I work on this issue almost every day. I risk my life because of it. You are barking up the wrong tree.

The point is that the Turks have not apologized and will not acknowledge it.

[father_elijah]

I do not wish to see all the Muslims killed. In the current emergency, I believe Muslim non-citizens are an unacceptable threat to the life and safety of America. I want them deported immediately.

Islam needs to purge itself of Wahhabism and undergo an internal reformation.

[father_elijah]

Noxious and odious but expected.

[a_Turk]

Hats off!

Thanks. This is getting tiresome, but I can't seem to give up..

[pkpjamestown]

"Expect another coup and forget about the darn EU"

EU is not the issue here. The Turkish people diserve a better life. They deserve a true democracy. The word "democracy" came from the Greek. Is this the reason your leaders cannot come to terms with it? A prosperous Democratic Turkey will not only be good for the Turks, but for the rest of the Balkans, Middle East, and Europe. We do not want another Iran, Iraq, or Afganistan type of eruption, in the world. Turkey is a very beautifull country to be destroyed. What can you, an educated smart Turk, do to prevent chaos in your homeland? The army cannot hold forever, can it?

[Turk2]

I can see that you have been blinded by the lies being told to many Armenians by today's so called historians to justify the disgraceful acts of their people which led to the deportation of hundreds of thousands of Armenians from eastern anatolia. Although it is obvious that a large number of deaths have occured among both the Armenian and Turkish and Jewish population in the region this truth is masked by the massive media hype the Armeinans were able to launch at the time with the support of the great powers (GB, FR, RUS, etc..) which were already attacking Turkey from all sides to completely disintegrate her. The fueling of Armenian nationalist ideals was just the thing they needed to weaken the empire take control of its lands. The Armenians, mostly under French and Russian influence, began to form organizations to revolt against the Sultan and form an independent Armenian state in eastern anatolia. These organizations (Tashnak and Hinchak in paticular) began arming the local Armenians and organized a revolt in which Armenian gang members turned against their own neighbors, killing every Turk, Kurd and Jew (or other ethnicity) they could find int the region, wiping out entire villages in some cases. The Ottoman army was forced to intervene and suppress the revolt in a country already at war on all fronts. The best method seen at the time was to move the Armenian population to the south to reestablish control over the Russian border. In the course of this movement, the Ottoman Army was given strict orders to protect the lives and possessions of the Armenians and severly punish anyone violating these orders. The deportation of so many people ocourse can not, in today's understanding of human rights, be excepted to be humane in any way but in comparison to contemporary practice in which rebellion in a time of war was punished by death, this was the least harmful that could be found. To classify this decision as a genocide one will have to find a very good justification to why so many Armenians living in other regions of the empire and even taking high government positions were not harmed in any way. If it were a systematic act to wipe out an entire nation, why are there so many Armenians living even in that region today? How could 1.5 million people have been killed in a region in which the total population, including all ethnic groups, was around 2 million? The total number of Armenians found in the latest census at the time were less than 1 million. How can one explain the miriad of mass graves uncovered all over eastern anatolia filled with Turks slaughtered by Armenians? If I get any replies I will continue with my statements. There's no point in writing if no one is reading this.

[father_elijah]

Turk2

Disruptor since November 7th, 2001

Go away. We are not buying what you are selling.