Posted on 11/07/2001 6:38:28 PM PST by crystalk
What if, rather than destroying it, we move it. It was sited there to obliterate the memory of the Temple, and the church too which stood near the site. You cite the destruction of the Buddhist shrines as a horror, which it was. But if the Taliban builds a Mosque at the site, you switch to their side. Buddhist's, if you are able don't move the Mosque and rebuild your shrines, you're a fanatic. It's easy to become a fanatic Ohioan. The Dome was sited there for a reason, the same reason the shrines were destroyed, the permanant destruction of a non Islamic religion. The Buddhist's might want to rebuild their shrines one day. Is that spiteful? Why is the desire to reconstruct the Temple spiteful?
...and above all, since some of you feel the need to preach, no way to reach any of the unconverted and bring them to your Faith.
I'm unclear who that is adressed to. I have no need to preach, and my religion doesn't encourage me to "reach any of the unconverted and bring them to your Faith". Not an issue.
It amazes me how people who don't believe in God love to post on threads related to the subject of God.
Simply amazing.
First, I have seen the date of the construction of the Dome of the Rock vary, from 685 to 691, so let us not rule out any of those years as possible years of it's placement or even of the first stone laid there. Keep those years in mind as you read on.
I'm using 360 as the number of days in a biblical year because it is encoded in both Revelation and Daniel. 1260 years, 42 months, a time, times and a half. (3 and a half times) So 1260 days divided by 42 months gives a 30 day month..... 1260 divided by 3.5 = 360...which gives me the biblical unit of a year. That is why I believe the "biblical" unit of a year is 360 days. I use the scriptures to understand the scriptures. It is because our times and laws have changed that we have to do the math to get to the right number of years to see when the abomintation of desolation was to be placed on the Holy Place, and when it will all be "taken care of by the Blessed One".
Today we have a 365 day year, with a leap year (additional day added) every 4 years, hence the average year is 365.25 .
so 1290 X 360 biblical years = 464400 days, divided by 365.25 modern years gives 1271.46 years or 1271 years, 5 months
and 1335 X 360 biblical years = 480600 days, divided by 365.25 modern years gives 1315.81 years 1315 years, 9 months (rounding up, make it close to 1316)
So hoping not to sound redundant, but to present the significance of the years to the Dome of the Rock, and given the delicate, even explosive situation in the Middle East right now,
Lets take 685 - 691 for the date of the placement of the first stone for the Dome (even though we don't know exactly, so lets keep that range)
685- 691 plus 1271 equals the years 1956-1962 1956 is the year of the start of the Suez/Sinai war between Israel and Egypt
685-691 plus 1316 equals the years 2001 to 2007
"...They may also reach other points, from other starting points, with respect to other prophetic and eschatological fulfillments than the one being pursued here. "
Very Interesting that you said that. Although I don't know the exact year of the Savior's crucifixion, again, there are many theories, I will use 29 AD to start counting the same 1271 years just to show something else that could be significant...
29 AD plus 1290 (which is really 1271) = 1300 AD, the year history says the Ottoman Empire was begun, and its first Sultan, Osman Khan Ghazi was seated in power. (Ghazi means conqueror)
and going forward from the setting up of the abomination of desolation in 685 thru 691 (or so) 1335 biblical years (1316), we come to the year 2001 thru 2007.......
My point is, if 2007 turns out to be the year it falls, then we have a fulfilled prophecy! can I hear an amen
Oh, and did you hear the one about the 666 years from the Messiah's crucifixion? Use 29 AD again, and apply the calculation on the 666, 666 X 360 = 239760 days, divided by 365.25 = 656.4
Add 656 years to 29 AD, and you have: 685...hmmmmmm
This Dome was built where it was specifically to drive a silver stake into the heart of one religion, ending it forever. It is also placarded with blasphemies against another religion. The latter had over 80% of the population of the Land when Islam took over, and the former most of the remainder. Muslims could have had a convention in a phone booth, and for years a handful of them, armed to the teeth, would meet each Friday in and around the Temple ruins on the south side, where Al Aqsa would later be constructed.
There is nothing hateful or anti-Islamic in my posting. History shows that they were unable to kill off the two religions they attacked: indeed those religions remain vibrant and interesting, while Islam represents nothing but poverty, feudalism, illiteracy, perversion, vice, murder, brutality toward women in every way, and a hundred things that you would have the hide of any American who practiced them, or if they even advocated them.
Yet for your little Muslim darlings, you make excuses for any vileness, any filth.
Note that I advocated not the destruction of this vicious Dome, but its careful stone-by-stone preservation so that it could be set up where it belongs, in the world capital of hatred, intolerance, and the non-permitting of diversity. That is Mecca.
The penalty for a non-Muslim who sets foot there is instant death. I have not heard any claim, not even by his frothing enemies in the media, that anything adverse might happen to a non-follower of Jerry Falwell who might set foot in Lynchburg. Perhaps you had better examine the differences between those two, instead of claiming there is something similar.
Christians, and Americans, and Jews are all innocent of the WTC bombing. And so am I. So why does the vituperation get directed at US, instead of at the guilty party, the abomination of desolation itself?
Yes, I do believe there is a dichotomy. The crucifixion of our Lord presents us with an absolutely unambiguous and inescapable either/or situation -- either your sins are nailed to the cross or they're not. Either you are spared from God's wrath by the blood of Jesus Christ or you are not. Period. If this dichotomy is a deception, then the following words must necessarily be a deception as well:
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life...Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him.
So, unless Jesus was lying, God's wrath remains on the Jews. Of course, the Jews experienced God's wrath on numerous occasions in Old Testament times, but they never ceased to be God's chosen because they were covered by the old covenant and its system of animal sacrifices. The situation is very different now -- Jews have rejected the new covenant, leaving themselves fully exposed to God's wrath.
By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obselete; and what is obselete is aging and will soon disappear.But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, and it is founded on better promises.
Paul makes it clear in Romans 11:26 that God has not abandoned the Jews, though -- "all Israel will be saved" some time in the future, and that salvation will come through Jesus Christ, brought to them by the work of His Church carrying out the Great Commission.
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. [Note: this includes the Islamic nations, too]
Therefore, as Christians, it makes more sense for us to do what we can to help lead our wayward Jewish brethren back to their new-covenant Savior, rather than cheering them on in their attempt to wrestle the old covenant back into existance with its temple and animal sacrifices and whatever else.
When Christ came as high priest of the good things that are already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not manmade, that is to say, not part of this creation. How much more then, will, the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the Living God!But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins, because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
If any of this seems smug or anti-Semitic, then it must be because the messages of the apostle Paul and Jesus himself are smug and anti-Semitic.
Hmmmm....because the more ardent religionists
have taken it into their head to try and kill the
rest of us? Over a piece of rock and some dirt?
You bet I have a dog in this fight.
You are speaking outside of your head. You are a non-believer. Go with the other non-believers here on FR, for they are myriad.
Honestly, I had to ask the question. But I now digress. If you don't believe, then, your opinion doesn't count one whit to those of us who do.
BTTT. The agnostic, atheist and irreligious, think they're smart in their presumptive "detached" perception. In point of fact their detachment is as ideologically based as religious perception. But the real point here is that such a perception is a cynical view of history and archeaology. It matters not to these that the Islamics are destroying and desecrating important artifacts. The act of archeaological cleansing (just like the iconoclasm of the Taliban) is a denial of the historical reality and continuity of a people (in the context of the Temple Mount the Jews and by inference Christians as well). It is an attempt to do what Islam has done wherever it has ruled - reduce the conquered dhimmi to a subservient people whose history is lost in the Islamic conquest.
This type of historical cleansing, a process which effected to a devastating degree Eastern Christianity, was seen recently in Kosovo with the destruction by the Islamic Albanians (with the help of mujahadeen from around the Islamic world) of at least one hundred Orthodox Churches and important Orthodox sites, and the funding by Saudi Arabia for the building of mosques in their place, is the kind of Islamic process which, if not addressed and dealt with, will leave masses of people without a history and place. Anyone who considers this of no moment is callous, cynical and as bad as the perpetrators themselves.
"Blindness IN PART has happened unto Israel, UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles has come in." "Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles, UNTIL the times of the Gentiles are finished."
The clock is not only ticking on your outmoded stance, it has done ticked out, and your time is up. Please take these ideas back to the middle ages, and welcome Israel back to full loving fellowship with us as not only full members of God's family, but with a unique eschatological role which gentilized Christians could never fulfil, and yes, that involves the Temple.
One red heifer, without blemish, without even two non-red hairs, will do more for eschatology than your quotations, which are out of context and out of date. They represent anti-Jewish bigotry, and are the moral equivalent of the anti-Christian bigotry of some in ADL, or of some in Israel who pass laws forbidding freedom of worship there to Christians, or desecrate churches there, or who want no Christian help in the Temple's rebuilding...despite the fact the Tanakh itself says such help will be both forthcoming, and welcome...
Mankind is willing to fight and die for his symbols, for the cultures and faith that make him human, or in the case of the Mecca cult, satanic.
I hope the Mecca cult builds its wailing minarets ten feet from the Clinton library, like it has from the Christian holy places of the Balkans, to say nothing of Jesus tomb, His birthplace, the Church of the Annuniciation, the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, and all of our most heart-breaking and valid cultural treasures.
I think the Clintons should give up their pretense of Christianity and openly join the Mecca cult.
If you want a sense of the demonic, sit outside the church of the Nativity in Bethlehem at 4 am and listen as those bellyaching loudspeakers start screaming 10 feet away from the church, that there is no god but Allah, that prayer is better than sleep, that Muhammad is the sole mouthpiece of Allah, and other such crap.
I hope the Mecca cult builds its wailing minarets ten feet from the Clinton library, like it has from the Christian holy places of the Balkans, to say nothing of Jesus tomb, His birthplace, the Church of the Annuniciation, the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, and all of our most heart-breaking and valid cultural treasures.
I think the Clintons should give up their pretense of Christianity and openly join the Mecca cult.
If you want a sense of the demonic, sit outside the church of the Nativity in Bethlehem at 4 am and listen as those bellyaching loudspeakers start screaming 10 feet away from the church, that there is no god but Allah, that prayer is better than sleep, that Muhammad is the sole mouthpiece of Allah, and other such crap.
In the meantime, learn something #154
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