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Obstruction in terror investigations?
WorldNetDaily.com ^ | Thursday, November 15, 2001 | Jon Dougherty

Posted on 11/16/2001 1:14:55 PM PST by JohnHuang2

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To: packrat01
--they could de-fund them, but they get threatened, blackmailed or bribed. Takes a lot to stand up to abuse aimed at you down a gun barrel, literally or figuratively. It's much easier and more common to "get with the program and play ball".

Ever really wonder why the republican revolution fizzled out fairly quickly, and why the klintonistas more or less are still walking around free? That's just one of many glaring examples, it goes way, way back. Think about the irs whistleblowers testifying in front of the de-nutted congress, they had hoods over their heads and talked through voice changers. There's some reasons for that.

Congress still has to (publically) go through the motions, but look what just got passed, and is being enthusiastically supported-if you are a whistleblower in government, you simply must have more evidence than just talking about it. You got to have documents, etc, hard evidence for your whistelblowing of abuses to be of any practical use. Well, what just got passed and is being widely accepted as 'cool" is this deal now if you are in government and present anything like that you are automatically a terrorist badguy. Catch 22 there, comp[letely obvious. They "say" they have whistleblower protections, but if you can't present evidence without breaking the so called "law" and running afoul of years of incarceration, what does that mean? And who is doing this again, clinton? He's still prez? Nope, he ain't, someone else is, but "there's a war on ya know, and etc, etc, etc".

No, there ain't a war on, congress did not declare war, there sure is shooting going on, but what is reality here is they rubber stamped a dictatorial edict, that onlyuu has the appearance on the surface lwevel of being legal. Arguing about this justification or that is still that, arguing in favor of an excuse to ignore our real law. Our government was set up to accept occassional discomfort and slightly less security in favor of a clear cut separation of powers and very clear cut limits on what this or that person in office is lawfully authorised to do or not do. Now, right now, it won't matter as long as the violent actions are directed towards the murderous mad jihaders, no one will really care, because they deserve it, but the manner it's being done-now that's a different story, because chances have a high probability-real dang high really- it will be expanded into all sorts of interesting areas and directed towarts all sorts of people who aren't murderous mad jihaders from boogorillavile someplace.

BUT, it won't be universally acknowledged until it's way, way, way too late.

What's the old cliche, the road to heck and perdition is paved with good intentions? that fits here I think.

21 posted on 11/16/2001 1:23:56 PM PST by zog
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To: tex-oma; zog
Long.

I find nothing there to disagree with. If your implication is that the government such as per #16 shouldn't be doing foreign policy or fight wars, it doesn't follow. It only follows that they will go about any task badly, even when the task is legitimate.

24 posted on 11/16/2001 1:24:04 PM PST by annalex
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To: LSJohn
You're right...interesting comments.
The elephants in the living room are no longer imaginary.
Eat, drink and be merry.
28 posted on 11/16/2001 1:25:22 PM PST by philman_36
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To: annalex
--to clarify. we have written down from long ago how they should go about things, what they do now in no way resembles that. We have an appearance of representative government, it still functions at a few levels like that, but for all practical purposes we have a government that is more edict than anything else. And I am more than a bit concerned that apparent abuse after abuse results in either nothing, or perhaaps a slap on the wrist. Especially inside the criminal justice system, the spook community, and the civil areas of the bureaucracy in the executive branch. I fear that there are many in those areas who have certain personal interests more at heart than doing the nations business, interests that don't exatly revolve around all the peoples interests in the United States.

We discuss those all the time here, listing the apparent discrepancies is redundant at this point, they are myriad.

I am really a normal simple person. This is really an easy concept to "get". In a nutshell, I wish and advocate straight talk, honesty, and a return to constitutional government as originally outlined, not this complex mess of who knows what stuff we have now. And it takes every individual inside and outside governmental employ and service to accomplish this.

And the only way to do that is through human to human talk and education and knowledge sharing. The setup now is heavily skewed towards governmental secrecy where they hide the 'badstuff" that goes on, a rigged election system with the two dominate political organizations douing what they can to make it almost impossible for anyone not in one or the other dominant party to get elected to national office, and a controled mass media which has an agenda of mantaining their dominance in information sharing, using again, their contacts with government to insure their near monopoly in mass communications. They "use" the system, to what is apparent on many levels an immoral if not outright illegal levels. This symbiotic system rewards them with their near monopolies from their help in maintaining the obfuscation of certain abusive aspects of government and of certain events. One criminal gang has traded with another gang for years, in other words.

Fortunately, the internet is now helping to correct some of those situations.

Like I outlined, people want to be part of a group, the way the country is designed in theory, we are the worlds largest ever "group" or collection of soverign individuals, united for a few specific functions. We hire-on people to serve for a certain time frame, and they constitute what we call "the government", although we should never forget, they are the real government's-that would be all of us-employees. They work for us, not vice versa.. None of them were ever elected, appointed, or hired to be a king, or to be a personal or foreign power/interest mercenary, or to be a subchief little more local despot. There's the big difference..

They work for us, they serve us, we don't work for them, and we don't serve them. We are not supposed to have to beg and grovel for relief, or to actually have to file suit or something like that to get them to actually do their jobs lawfully.

And when they mess up, when a combination of their peers in governmental employment notice it, or the people notice it, they are supposed to be removed, post haste, immediately, not re-elected, laterally transferred, or promoted to an even higher office. They do not stay on the clock and keep collecting checks. What we have now is bass ackwards of what it should be.

They are never supposed to hide behind their temporary employment and whichever position they temporarily occupy that we allow them, and tell lies, or refuse to do their legal jobs they were hired for, or to help cover up each other's malfeasances, or especially to just assume more power and authority than what they are supposed to have. That's the deal as originally arranged, I think it's a good idea to stick to it.

29 posted on 11/16/2001 2:51:24 PM PST by zog
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To: ratcat
The CIA is in the FBI: Big Time by now. I personally knew two "former" CIA guys in there. Hoover would never have let any of them in, as he did not trust the CIA. I think they have penetrated FBI all the way to the top and are effectively running the Bureau.
30 posted on 11/16/2001 5:29:32 PM PST by roughrider
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To: zog
I agree. There is nothing mystical about the government, -- it's just a service we hired, they are not very good at what they do, and as soon as enough people realize that, they'll get fired. Big time.
31 posted on 11/16/2001 5:53:20 PM PST by annalex
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To: ratcat; zog; All
Excellent posts by zog and ratcat!

A lot of blind flag-wavers have to be un-brainwashed!

33 posted on 11/17/2001 7:50:19 PM PST by Warhorse
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To: Warhorse; ratcat; zog
They are never supposed to hide behind their temporary employment and whichever position they temporarily occupy that we allow them, and tell lies, or refuse to do their legal jobs they were hired for, or to help cover up each other's malfeasances, or especially to just assume more power and authority than what they are supposed to have.
Singing to the choir as it were...
Say that again, Sam? Gary Aldrich slams federal personnel for incompetence
35 posted on 11/19/2001 2:22:29 AM PST by philman_36
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To: LSJohn; ratcat; zog
Where do such insights come from? ROTFLOL
36 posted on 11/19/2001 2:26:25 AM PST by philman_36
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To: philman_36
--almost impossible to fire them. I got an idea, make it illegal to be a "career" federal employee. Make it an un-pensionable ten years maximum "service', then that's it, back to the private sector, and that would include politicians, sum cumulative total of years 'served", 10, then buh bye! As to the military, easy, BRING BACK THE LEGITIMATE MILITIA, and stop illegal wars from being waged by any presidential directive. Another thing I would REALLY like to see stopped is treasury notes and bonds. Exactly WHY do I have to pay taxes to pay interest to someone, when we should just have a yearly balanced budget with zero deficits and no borrowing?
37 posted on 11/19/2001 1:50:22 PM PST by zog
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To: zog
Why zog, what big file storage devices you have...LOL
38 posted on 11/19/2001 3:32:28 PM PST by philman_36
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To: zog
BTTT
39 posted on 12/22/2001 1:23:32 AM PST by Uncle Bill
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To: JohnHuang2
Are the krats trying to protect their talibans...
40 posted on 12/22/2001 1:27:23 AM PST by mbb bill
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