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Newspaper Recount Didn't Count All Votes: Washington Post Misreported Its Own Study
Human Events ^ | The Week of November 19, 2001 | Timothy P. Carney

Posted on 11/16/2001 1:25:07 PM PST by Jean S

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To: PetroniDE
NO MENTION OF THE DISQUALIFIED ABSENTEE (MILITARY) VOTES.

In fact ,no mention of Milatary ballots at all. This includes both disqualified, never counted, and ballots which were disputed for one of several arcane reasons.

21 posted on 11/16/2001 1:25:13 PM PST by Surge-on
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To: JeanS
Asked directly if the newspapers kept track of how many chads flew off the ballots during their recount, Keating said, "No. That was not something that there was any effort to try to—because if there’s a chad falling, lying on the floor, you don’t know if it came out of the presidential race, or another race, I mean you can’t, you don’t know. You don’t know if it came out today or last week. You don’t know if it came out of a ballot we’re looking at, or a ballot we’re not looking at."

Keep wishing guys. This re-count was a scam from the get go.

22 posted on 11/16/2001 1:25:21 PM PST by WIMom
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To: JeanS
You are beating a dead horse.....Gore LOST, CONCEDED, and did not take the oath of office [thank GOD!].

The adults are back in the White House. Only if the "news" organizations could send their kids back to school and allow the ADULTS to do the thinking now. Listening to thier questions and interviews, they need help, and lots of it.

Say this aloud....President BUSH. Professor GORE. Anyone still talking of events of last year's election [sore loosers] should try to learn the difference.

23 posted on 11/16/2001 1:25:21 PM PST by RasterMaster
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To: GOPJ
I hadn't heard this, but it is possible. Do you have a link to a story?
24 posted on 11/16/2001 1:25:21 PM PST by Citizen of the Savage Nation
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To: ChadGore
...and now they find "new votes"???

They never did recover the second Vote-A-matic, did they? Easy to find "new votes" when you have them manufactured in the trunk of the car.

This has as much believeability of the "missing ballot box" that was found where Jesse Jackoff and Al Slimeton had just left from....was that CONVENIENT???

25 posted on 11/16/2001 1:25:22 PM PST by RasterMaster
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To: Penny1
Why don't these newspaper people go the states that also had punchcard ballots which decided the winner by a slim margin. Anyone remember the states I'm talking about? I think New Mexico was one.
26 posted on 11/16/2001 1:25:22 PM PST by IRBlondie
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To: JeanS
Bush won the election, and America loves him at 87%.
It really doesn't matter if the democrats want to keep counting ballots, kleenex, dust bunnies, as a vote for Gore- As long as they pay for it themselves.
It keeps them busy and out of the way.
Let the children play, because the real President has a country to protect.
27 posted on 11/16/2001 1:25:22 PM PST by concerned about politics
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To: Citizen of the Savage Nation
See reply #20.
28 posted on 11/16/2001 1:25:23 PM PST by Jean S
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To: JeanS
"Where there's a carcass, there the vultures will gather"
29 posted on 11/16/2001 1:25:23 PM PST by akbar
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To: GOPJ
What a surprise, the Washington Post not reporting the truth...obviously related to the NY Times.
30 posted on 11/16/2001 1:25:24 PM PST by KLT
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To: IRBlondie
New Mexico, Iowa and Wisconsin (and maybe Oregon) were all within extremely narrow margins. And of course Missouri allowed one Demo stronghold district to extend voting for an extra hour or two. What will become of the Democrats if we ever upgrade our vote-counting equipment and they can no longer manipulate these ballots and electioneering procedures?
31 posted on 11/16/2001 1:25:25 PM PST by ReleaseTheHounds
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To: dead
From the L.A. Times:
GOP Was the Real Victim in Fla. Vote

The new findings show that African American Republicans who voted in Florida were in excess of 50 times more likely than the average African American to have had a ballot declared invalid because it was spoiled.

Also:
FR version

32 posted on 11/16/2001 1:26:56 PM PST by Cooter
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To: Cooter
WOW! I missed that! Thanks alot for the link!
33 posted on 11/16/2001 1:26:58 PM PST by dead
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To: ReleaseTheHounds
"What will become of the Democrats if we ever upgrade our vote-counting equipment and they can no longer manipulate these ballots and electioneering procedures?"

Funny you should say that...it seems that on the issue of national ID's, the RATS favor their use for just about every possible thing except for voting.......Wonder why Hmmmmmmmmmmm
34 posted on 11/16/2001 1:26:59 PM PST by HEY4QDEMS
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To: JeanS
On the issues of what happened to the military ballots - they were NOT included in the total. Check out my communications with the WSJ Here

The press is being very misleading on this recount since they want to manufacture headlines and attempt to vindicate their original incorrect assertions.

35 posted on 11/16/2001 1:26:59 PM PST by uncommonsense
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To: Howlin
I'm sure they've already started. Hell, for all we know, they could still be voting!

Actually, the Dems are getting a head-start on the next election...they are voting now to build up a lead they can keep.

In all seriousness though, they are trying to poison the well, to steel the faithful, to cast doubt and stir resentment. We all know how long resentment can fester. The media will do what it can to thwart the true republic.

36 posted on 11/16/2001 1:27:01 PM PST by KC Burke
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To: GOPJ
black fraud
 

CLINTON-GORE-DALEY-DEM ELECTION-THEFT-BY-MANUAL-RECOUNT PLOY DOCUMENTED BY DEMOCRAT ATTORNEY

COROLLARY 1: Do Democrat Precincts Prefer Punch Card Over More Accurate Optical Scan Ballots PRECISELY to Enable This Type of Election Theft?

COROLLARY 2: Is hillary clinton's "win" (which required a massive election-day conversion of intractable hillary-haters) a result of Democrat Fraud?

"Our strength is not in the ballot but in the counting...As long as I count the votes, what are you going to do about it?"

--Boss Tweed, November 1871

 

My punch-card ballot-fraud logic:

1- The Punch-card ballot is neither a necessary nor a sufficient condition for vote fraud.

2- The Punch-card ballot provides an efficient, quick, mass-production, superficially undetectable means both to create and to destroy votes.

3- The Punch-card ballot, being both more complex and less user-friendly than, say, the optical-scan ballot, is more biased against the inexperienced voter, the uneducated voter and/or the stupid voter. Demographics would, therefore, argue for the proposition that Democrat inner-city precincts and counties would be highly motivated to eliminate the punch ballot while Republican precincts would not.

4- That Democrat inner-city precincts and counties, e.g., Cook County, choose to retain the punch ballot, a method that in an honestly run election necessarily costs the Democrats VOTES, suggests that these precincts and counties are illegally and fraudulently exploiting the characteristics of the punch ballot to create Democrat votes and destroy non-Democrat votes.

5- Because there exist forensic/statistical methods to determine whether punch-ballot fraud has occurred, I urge the Bush and Lazio camps, as well as Judicial Watch and other watchdog groups, to use the FOIA to investigate the ballots in the presidential race and the New York senate race and all other races in which Democrat inner cities played a significant role.

 
 
 

An Election Judge on Fraud

Wall Street Journal, Letters to Editor, Dec 5, 2000)

Your Nov. 22 page-one article "Florida Ballot Miscues Touch Off Debate Within the African-American Community" may be misleading to readers.

Was the problem of large numbers of overvotes in the black precincts due to an "lack of sophisitication," as Congresswoman Hastings has suggested? Or rather, was there a significant amount of ballot tampering of the Bush ballots by these Democrat precinct election officials, by their subsequently punching out the Gore chads to invalidate the ballot and reduce the Bush vote count in these heavily Democrat precincts? Some were reported as 1,000-plus for Mr. Gore, and less than a dozen for Mr. Bush. How many overvoted ballots for president in those precincts? Was Gov. Bush punched on any of these? How many? Having been an election judge here in Houston , Texas (Harris County), for more than a decade, I have been made aware over the years by my fellow Republican Ballot Security officials here of numerous examples of probably serious election fraud in some of the inner-city precincts, where we apparently use similar votomatic punch card voting systems, as in Palm Beach, Broward, and Dade County, Florida.

We apparently have seen examples of intentional tampering of already voted ballots by Democrat election officials in our inner-city precincts, that probably took place after the polls had closed and the poll watchers had gone home. The easiest opportunity for tampering has been for precinct officials to  improperly reopen the ballot transfer cases on the way to the election center, and punch out a Democrat chad in a particular race on a ballot that was voted as a Republican vote for that race, thereby reducing the Republican's vote count. We even had an incident several years ago of a Democrat precinct official driving around our Loop 610 for more than an hour in their van altering and even adding ballots.

Remember that reducing your opponent's vote count is just as effective as adding new ballots for your candidate, and virtually undetectable. The only way to even sense this kind of tampering has occurred is to examine the overvoted ballots for their two preferences, and then examine the down ballot preferences. Every Bush ballot would have been double punched with Gore votes too, and possibly even straight-Republican ballots would have been punched with straight-Democratic holes, too. The real story may be in a closer examination of those 19,000 overvote ballots in Palm Beach County. Some veteran ballot security officials of these vote fraud investigations here in Houston believe massive voter fraud might be found to have occurred in the inner-city precincts in those three Florida counties. Perhaps even in other metropolitan cities across America.

If the presumption of election fraud is to be assumed, Gore will have more chads punched out on almost all 19,000 overvoted ballots, and Bush some number short of that. The Gore Campaign will argue that this differential proves that Gore got more votes than Bush, but in reality, it may simply suggest that his Democrat election officials punched out his Gore chads to invalidate Bush ballots. One need only to have watched the hand recounts in Broward County to see how brazen some election officials can be.

One other factual note here that should cause you to understand the potential gravity of the fraud in Florida. For comparison, here in Harris County (Greater Houston area), with almost a million similar votomatic ballots cast on Nov. 7, Harris County had only 6,500 (0.7%) overvotes (more than one vote) and 14,690 (1.5%) undervotes (no votes) for president. So, one should ask, why such a problem in Palm Beach where overvoting was almost 5%. "Lack of Sophistication"? Butterfly Ballot? Fraud? A combination of all three? You can reject "Butterfly Ballot", if most of the ballots have Bush and anyone else.

In Houston, we have even observed discrepancies between the number of votes cast and the number of signatures on poll lists to be as high as 4% to 6% in precincts without pollwatchers, but it apparently reduces to below 1% when poll watchers are used. Sadly, not even poll watchers are a guarantee against a "sophisticated" and dishonest precinct election official. They're out there every election, stealing lots of votes and undermining our precious electoral system and thus our democracy. Wake up America, all may not be as it appears in those Florida counties with heavily Democrat precincts, let alone around the rest of America. Maybe we need to pay attention and investigate high overvote precincts all across the nation.

C. Moore

Houston

Summary of how the votes were altered in Florida

Robert Cook has done an excellent study inferring how the vote stealing took place. It is very complete and difficult to follow, but can be summarized as follows:

1. Beforehand the perpetrators knew that the large number of double punched ballots would be questioned and they started the voter confusion campaign as a cover-up. 

2. Votes were gained for Gore and canceled for Bush and Buchanan by punching out a Gore chad in stacks of ballots and in blank (protest) ballots. 

3. Close examination of double punched ballots should reveal irregular Gore holes in double punched Bush + Gore or Buchanan + Gore ballots. This is forensic evidence of tampering!

4. Tampered Republican ballots with Bush + Gore votes would have the rest of the ballot showing votes mostly for Republican in the other Federal and Local races. 

5. The preponderance of double punched votes occurred only for the presidential race and nearly ALL of the double punched ballots had ONE hole punched for Gore. A truly random process would have just as many double punched holes for other candidates. 

6. In a nut-shell, here is how it works. The perpetrator(s) take a stack of the ballots and tap a small nail through the lined-up Gore holes. (They are gored.) Then here are the results:

Original Ballot

Original Status

Ballot after being "Gored"

Ballot Status after being "Gored"

Gore

1 Voter for Gore

Gore

1 Vote for Gore

Bush

1 Vote for Bush

Bush + Gore

Disqualified 1 Vote less for Bush

Buchanan

1 Vote for Buchanan

Buchanan + Gore

Disqualified 1 Vote less for Buchanan

Blank (protest vote)

Disqualified

Gore

1 NEW Vote for Gore

After reading this summary, go to Robert Cook's excellent detective article. No one said that the perpetrators who steal elections are stupid!!! If they had selected a few thousand more ballots to alter, Florida would have quietly gone for Gore and no one would have been the wiser. The perpetrators were clever, but they didn't accurately forecast the Large BUSH Vote!

Click Errors only Occurred in Presidential Races? by Robert A. Cook, PE

BUSH Team, please read.

15 Posted on 12/05/2000 13:32:40 PST by Varmint Al

The Dems are still talking about counting the thousands of "Under Count" ballots and that will be looking at Dimpled Chad. They will be trying to count them as votes for Gore. I have not heard of any Dimpled Chad being in the Bush column. The statically analysis of Cook et al is very complete and convincing to logical minds, but we are dealing with courts and lawyers. I believe it would be very difficult to present and defend in court with the "legal" attacks that could be presented. However, there is a way to prevent them from counting Dimpled Chad as votes for Gore and "Voter Intent". If just the Experiment Part A below was done it would show that it is NOT "Voter Intent".

I heard on the news today that the ballots are now in the Judge N. Sanders Sauls' Tallahassee Court along with voting machines! All of the hardware necessary is in court to do Part A.

The Silver Bullet to Expose Dimpled Chad and Vote Fraud.

ÝHere is a very simple experiment that would show the whole country that dimpled chads are forensic evidence of voter fraud.
Call a press conference and on live TV perform a ballot experiment. The news people are swarming around Florida and would come.

Tools required:

1. A voting machine
2. About 100 blank ballot cards clearly marked VOID.
3. A small hammer.
4. A small nail with the point filed flat.

The Experiment:

Part A. Use the voting machine and try to make a dimpled chad on a SINGLE ballot. It can't be done. It either punches completely through or nothing. This would show that counting a dimpled chad as "voter intent" is not valid.

Part B. Take a stack of cards about 100 thick and place the nail over a hole and tap it through the cards till it will go no farther. The top cards will be clearly punched. The bottom cards will be dimpled. Show the dimpled cards on the TV camera. Let them zoom in close. This would show one way dimpled chad could be manufactured.

This simple experiment would put an end to the dimpled chad count and expose the associated vote fraud.

--------------------------------------------

Remember the Challenger failure. Richard Feynman did a very simple experiment with a glass of ice water, a "C" clamp, and a piece of the rubber "O" ring. He clamped the "O" ring with "C" clamp and dipped it in the ice water. Then when he removed if from the ice water and loosened the clamp, the "O" ring stayed dented! Later, it was shown that the cold temperature of the launch and the material properties of the "O" ring lead to the failure. Sometimes a very simple experiment can be worth reams of legal opinions.

--------------------------------------------

More info on the Votomatic Voting Device:

John Ahmann of Napa, CA inventor of the punch-card balloting device used in some Florida counties testified in court.

There are 228 Holes in a ballot card. During development, the Votomatic voting device was tested by punching all the holes in cards for a total of 15,000 holes.

The chad dimensions are 0.125" wide x 0.170" long x 0.007" thick. The pile of chad under a specific hole for an average election (150 voters) would be about 1/16" high. There is room in the voting device for about 1.5 million chad. The distance behind the card for the chad  is 1" deep.

The diameter of the stylus tip is 0.050". The break point force required to punch a chad if from 6 to 12 oz.

 

16 Posted on 12/05/2000 13:41:20 PST by Varmint Al

Algore's Risky Recount Scheme: Musings
by Mia T, 11-24-00

Basically, the Gore-Daley scheme was this: (1) Manufacture spurious evidence of "error" in original machine count that would require a recount, (2) demand a MANUAL recount, (3) tamper Cook-County style with the ballots and the law to produce those "errors" (4) cure those "errors" with newly-created Gore votes. Some details:

False/Illegal predicates for hand recounting:
  • spurious statistical evidence of "error" in original machine count
    • The sample precincts selected for the machine recount to demonstrate putative county "error" in original machine count were neither random nor representative of county, but rather disproportionately pro-Gore. This is precisely the reason the actual (as opposed to the extrapolated) recount numbers are proving insufficient to flip the election to Gore without ex-post-facto relaxing of both the definition of "vote" and the law.
    • Palm Beach County's first (machine) recount, which netted Gore 750 votes (900 Gore, 150 Bush), indicates Cook-County-type Fraud that was accomplished by selectively punching "empty" or "protest" ballots before the recount.
      • Statewide, 2% of the voters deliberately chose NOT to select a presidential candidate. 2% of 45,000 Palm Beach ballots is 900, statistically equal to the 950 "votes" changed into 750 Gore votes, and 150 Bush votes during the recount.
      • Palm Beach FL had an error rate in favor of Gore more than 120 TIMES greater than any other county (NB: This has NOTHING WHATEVER to do with the butterfly ballot.)
      • It is statistically impossible (odds of over 149 million to 1) to have ONE county out of 67 change its recount votes by over 900 votes if it is counting untainted, unaltered ballots, while the other 64 counties (using legal methods) change their recounts by less than 30 votes either way!
      • In a statistically valid recount, half of the errors would favor Bush, and half favor Gore. (from The Robert A. Cook, PE analysis)
       
Pregnant chads and illegitimacy:
  • Illinois precedent cited by Gore/Boies/Florida Supreme Court cabal in fact disallowed indented, fully attached chads, viz., allowed for consideration only those chads "not completely dislodged," notwithstanding Boies' lies to the contrary.
Fallen chads and circular reasoning:
  • The chads littering the counting rooms, prima facie evidence of altered ballots, can only be the chads putatively punily punched by the voter, so Gore's circular reasoning goes...

 

"Back in Chi' in the old days, we count the votes, and we keep counting them again and again until we get what we want."--Key Largo: Johnny Rocco - Chicago mobster, explaining his rise to power, boasting about fixing elections back in Chicago

 

GORE-DALEY-DEM ELECTION-THEFT-BY-MANUAL-RECOUNT PLOY DOCUMENTED BY DEMOCRAT ATTORNEY

COROLLARY 1: Do Democrat Precincts Prefer Punch Card Over More Accurate Optical Scan Ballots PRECISELY to Enable This Type of Election Theft?

COROLLARY 2: Is hillary clinton's "win" (which required a massive election-day conversion of intractable hillary-haters) a result of Democrat Fraud?

"Our strength is not in the ballot but in the counting...As long as I count the votes, what are you going to do about it?"

--Boss Tweed, November 1871

 

 

Why the Manual Recount is Unconstitutional:
Due Process, Equal Protection and Carol Roberts
 

"Explicit statistical evidence of massive ballot tampering in Palm Beach, Fl"

ELECTION THEFT BY STANDARD DEVIATION DEVIANT

After Gore statisticians determine Gore vote pickup insufficient to overtake Bush,
  • Broward Dems Lower Standard to Manufacture Gore "votes"
  • Gore operatives attack absentee votes (military, Seminole, etc.) to effectively erase legitimate Bush votes

    Jacobs` lawsuit alleges that by writing in the numbers on 2,130 cards, the GOP committed vote fraud, and by letting them do it, Goard did, too. It is now impossible to identify specifically which ballots were involved, so Clark is left with little option but to rule in favor of Goard or throw out all 15,000 absentee ballots. If she does the latter, that would mean a 4,800-vote swing for Gore.

    Ken Wright, an attorney for the Florida GOP, calls the suit a dispute over "a hypertechnicality."

Seminole ballot case may hinge on 1996 ruling

 

As I understand it, the action of the GOP was the result of software failure: The GOP software erroneously filled in the voter's address instead of voter's ID #.

Some questions:

1- Is there really a substantive difference between a COMPUTER INSTRUCTED BY A HUMAN filling in the voter ID # and a HUMAN INSTRUCTED BY A HUMAN filling in the voter ID #?

2- Is pathological-liar Gore's contention true that the GOP "threw out" Democrat applications? As I understand it, these applications were a mass mailing to GOP voters, that the error was confined to Republican households, that applications to Democrat households did not require any cure because the Democrat program did not contain this software error.

3- Why did Harry Jacobs LIE to Chris Matthews (Hardball) last week? Jacobs told Matthews that "he had no contact" with any Gore operative concerning the case, a claim he later recanted under oath (perhaps because of visions of about-to-be-indicted clinton dancing in his head).

4- And what is racebaiter Jesse Jackson doing in row one, staring down Judge Nikki Clark, anyway?

 
 
 

Gore Keeps Picking Up Broward Votes

by TERRY SPENCER
Associated Press Writer

 

PLANTATION, Fla. (AP) -- Republicans accused the Broward County canvassing board of bowing to political pressure Sunday after the board reversed a decision to disqualify ballots with dimple or one corner chads.

The board had been throwing out any ballots that did not have two corners poked out of the chad -- the tiny pieces of paper in a punch-card ballot.

''The Gore campaign now wants to lower the bar because it needs more votes,'' said Ed Pozzuoli, chairman of the county's Republican Party.

Pozzuoli said it was unfair for the board to change the rules in the middle of the recount. With 351 of the county's 609 precincts counted by Sunday evening, Gore had gained 90 votes over the official tallies sent to the secretary of state on Tuesday. It remained uncertain if any of the manually recounted votes would be added to the official totals.

''Any semblance of a standard of fairness in the hand-counting process in Broward County has been abandoned,'' said Bush campaign spokesman Ray Sullivan. ''Instead, they're going to get a subjective reading of the votes by a majority Democratic board.''

U.S. Rep. Peter Deutsch, D-Fla., whose district includes Broward, defended the canvassing board's decision to include the dimpled ballots, and he dismissed the Republican allegation the board bowed to pressure.

''They're also saying that people are eating chads in the room,'' Deutsch said. ''They're saying a lot of things that aren't going on. What's clear is the canvassing board under Florida statute is there to decide the intent of the voter.''

Since the start of the hand counting of the 588,000 ballots, the counters have set aside questionable ballots in an envelope just in case they needed to be reviewed.

The board said Sunday it would consider the ballots with dimple, pregnant chads or otherwise questionable chads after its appellate attorney, Andrew J. Meyers, said the two-corner standard would not hold up in court.

Last week, Broward County attorney Ed Dion had argued the two-corner chad rule was legal. Since then, judges in Palm Beach and Miami-Dade made separate rulings that canvassing boards should look to see if a voter's intent could be determined, even with a questionable chad.

Republicans alleged political pressure led to the change, but Dion -- a Republican -- flatly denied the charge.

''My only job is to represent the canvassing board. This is an evolving situation,'' Dion said. ''What we believed to be accurate legal advice on Monday is now changed.''

Democrats applauded the board's change of heart.

''These chad marks didn't get on the ballot by osmosis,'' said Democratic attorney Charles Lichtman, who added the voter's choice was obvious on many of the ballots that have thus far been thrown out. ''The only way they could have occurred is with a stylus in a voting booth.''

Secretary of State Katherine Harris has said she won't accept any manual recount totals, but the Florida Supreme Court ruled Friday that she cannot certify election results until it holds a hearing Monday.


37 posted on 11/16/2001 1:27:05 PM PST by Mia T
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To: LoneRangerMassachusetts
"What a gross waste of human effort."

Or, What a gross effort of human waste.

38 posted on 11/16/2001 1:27:06 PM PST by hollywood
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To: JeanS
WHO REALLY CARES ABOUT THAT DAMN ELECTION EXCEPT THOSE STALINIST DEMOCRATS!"POWER DOES NOT REST WITH THE VOTE BUT THOSE WHO COUNT THE BALLOTS",JOSEPH STALIN.
39 posted on 11/16/2001 1:31:09 PM PST by INSENSITIVE GUY
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To: Mia T
Thank you...
40 posted on 11/16/2001 1:32:02 PM PST by GOPJ
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