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Putin intends to wipe out anti-Semitism in his country
AP via The Miami Herald ^ | November 15, 2001 | AP

Posted on 11/16/2001 6:14:22 PM PST by CommiesOut

Published Thursday, November 15, 2001

Putin intends to wipe out anti-Semitism in his country, Russia's chief rabbi says

WASHINGTON -- (AP) -- The chief rabbi of Russia flew home Wednesday convinced that Russian President Vladimir Putin intends to fight anti-Semitism and ``eradicate it completely.''

Rabbi Berel Lazar led a delegation of a half-dozen Russian and American Jews that met with Putin on Tuesday night at the Russian Embassy.

``The meeting proved to me the commitment of President Putin for the well-being of Russian Jewry, his commitment to fighting anti-Semitism in any form in Russia and letting Russian Jews travel freely and retain their dual citizenship,'' Lazar said in a telephone interview from his airplane.

Anti-Semitism is deeply rooted in Russian history, as it is in many European countries.

Even after the breakup of the Soviet Union in 1991, synagogues were burned and marked with graffiti.

Since Putin took office at the end of 1999, arrests and prosecutions in anti-Semitic incidents became more frequent, Lazar said.

But, he said, ``The judicial system doesn't work so well yet.''

Before the Jewish New Year in September, Putin sent a letter to the Jewish community promising to stamp out anti-Semitism.

There are about one million Jews in Russia, the rabbi said, even after massive emigration spurred by Jackson-Vanik legislation that required the Soviet Union to issue exit permits or forfeit trading privileges.

President Bush informed Putin at their White House talks Tuesday that the administration would ask Congress to exempt Russia from the legislation -- a move that Lazar said has his support.

``Jewish identity is our biggest problem,'' the rabbi said. ``Seventy percent of Jews haven't come forward to identify as Jews. They used to be ashamed of being Jewish.''

But now, Lazar said, ``there is a pride in being Jewish,'' although it has not reached Jewish communities in remote areas of Russia. Synagogues are being returned to Jewish control and religious schools are being built.

Asked if he encouraged Russian Jews to emigrate to Israel, the United States or elsewhere, or to remain in Russia with a Jewish identity, the rabbi said he leaves it up to them to make that personal decision.

Meanwhile, David A. Harris, executive director of the American Jewish Committee, called Bush's decision to seek a lifting of Jackson-Vanik's application to Russia ``a momentous event.''



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To: Otto von Bismark
It may sound naive, but I asked myself many times, why it is, that so many people/countrys hate the Jews. What the hell did they do wrong, to deserve such a hatred? I myself can not comprehend this, under any circumstances. Is this because they believe in the Old Testament and not Jesus Christ?

I think is has to do with the fact that they were so set apart from society for so long. Jews were forbidden to demand usery (interest) from one another, as were early European Christians. Therefore, Jews often went into banking and prospered by lending money to non-Jews. That caused the old resentment of debtor to lender (Just like I resent Sallie Mae for my astronomical student loan).

Jews were forbidden to go into many professions, so they became very good at the few they could practice and often stayed in the same profession generation after generation. They prospered. Often, this conspicuous properity led to the false assumption that they were corrupt and stealing from the non-Jews. This tended to become a sort of mythology not countered for many generations until it tended to boil over into anti-Jewish violence in many places around Europe.

51 posted on 11/17/2001 3:55:53 AM PST by Skooz
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To: dennisw
was in the hands of Russians and that Georgian.

This is off subject, but this reminds me of the Stalinist propaganda films fo the 1930s. Just about every movie made in the Soviet Union during that time began with a short piece showing how Georgians were just as Russian as anyone else and proclaiming how wonderful Georgia and Georgians were.

52 posted on 11/17/2001 4:02:43 AM PST by Skooz
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Comment #53 Removed by Moderator

To: Skooz
Minorities are always mistreated. This is why Jews have often been mistreated. Jews did not intermarry otherwise there would not be a Jewish people to talk of.

So the Jews become the other, they are apart, and the common man may resent this.
V. interesting about the promotion of Georgians back then.
54 posted on 11/17/2001 4:08:19 AM PST by dennisw
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Comment #55 Removed by Moderator

Comment #56 Removed by Moderator

To: cdwright
I gave a secular/historical response to Otto's question. You gave a spiritual answer to the same question. I believe both to be correct. Jews have prospered in whatever setting they have been placed because they are God's chosen people.
57 posted on 11/17/2001 4:15:19 AM PST by Skooz
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To: cdwright
The Jews are a minority within the MidEast. The Muslim Arabs view the MidEast as their turf to run as they please.

Drives them nuts that Jews have their own nation in the ME and have the means and will to defend it! 43% of Israelis are MidEast Jews who were ruthlessly expelled from the Arab nations. So Israel is a gathering together of the Jews of the MidEast. Not just a Euro-Zionist enterprise.

58 posted on 11/17/2001 4:24:50 AM PST by dennisw
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To: dennisw
V. interesting about the promotion of Georgians back then.

I don't suppose it could have anything to do with the fact that kindly old uncle Joe was Goergians? Naaa didn't think so either. :-)

59 posted on 11/17/2001 6:04:18 AM PST by Valin
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To: malarski
Your denigration of non-Jews, especially those in the "servant" trades is very typical of the Jews, who do not know what humility is.

Bull. I didn't start this. I don't remember any Jews on FR posting anything about Poles or eastern Europeans until you guys started all this anti-Jewish crap.

If you want to dish it out, you had better be able to take it.

60 posted on 11/17/2001 6:44:07 AM PST by Inyokern
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To: madrussian
What nazi web site have you found it on? The same one that lists Jewish People's Commissars in Lenin's government?

I got it from this Polish website

61 posted on 11/17/2001 6:53:07 AM PST by Inyokern
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To: CommiesOut; struwwelpeter
Uh-oh ... looks like the syntax has come home to roost.

I've every confidence they'll meet with every success we've enjoyed with our War on Nouns Series in which we've targed (but somehow only exacerbated the problems of) Organized Crime, Poverty, Drugs and Terrorism.

Time to revise my thoughts on the humor-less militant atheist ... somebody's splitting a gut on this headline.

62 posted on 11/17/2001 8:57:57 AM PST by Askel5
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To: independentmind
I say we skip the Global Code of Conduct's slate of "Hate Crimes" and just team up with the Russians in a "War on Evil" and be done with it.
63 posted on 11/17/2001 8:59:09 AM PST by Askel5
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To: CommiesOut
Good for him..
64 posted on 11/17/2001 9:09:12 AM PST by codebreaker
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To: dennisw
Whatever on earth would make you say this? A Polish visitor would would surely be treated well in Israel. What makes you think he wouldn't?

I was talking about residing in a country.

65 posted on 11/17/2001 9:10:43 AM PST by madrussian
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Comment #66 Removed by Moderator

To: dennisw
What's the matter. You hate those holocaust museums? You think the Jews should also build a holocaust museum for the Ukrainians and Cambodians and Armenians?

Jews in the USA pay taxes. We vote. So taxpayers helped build a few holocaust museums. Why does this make you so angry?

It's not like there was a poll of individual taxpayers what museum they want their money to go for.

67 posted on 11/17/2001 9:30:00 AM PST by madrussian
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To: Skooz
I think is has to do with the fact that they were so set apart from society for so long.

They set themselves apart from the society. There is no universal law that various people will target Jews for no reason.

68 posted on 11/17/2001 9:33:55 AM PST by madrussian
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To: Angus_Day
HE will also wipe out public drunkeness and so many other unique Russian customs...

There is nothing uniqually Russian about public drunkeness. have you ever been to Amsterdam? New York? Paris? Public drunkenness exists there as well. (Russians simply can hold their liquor better than most. THIS is a unique Russian trait!)

69 posted on 11/17/2001 9:38:44 AM PST by ninachka
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To: Inyokern
I got it from this Polish website

They don't have such a table. So the nazi web site you get it from is your head, haha.

70 posted on 11/17/2001 9:40:32 AM PST by madrussian
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To: Askel5
Anti-Semitism is deeply rooted in Russian history, as it is in many European countries.

I wouldn't get overly alarmed at Putin's comments. BTW, the author forgot to mention exactly where anti-semitism isn't "deeply rooted"--outside of Israel, of course. Putin sounds to me like he's trying to please someone--most likely that someone is willing to invest in Russia.

71 posted on 11/17/2001 10:55:57 AM PST by independentmind
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To: Inyokern
Hey, don't get upset at your own people. I was just quoting from Steven Steinlight's article. My read somehow tells me that the superiority dogma is not only a Nazi invention:

More tacitly and subconsciously, I was taught the superiority of my people to the gentiles who had oppressed us. We were taught to view non-Jews as untrustworthy outsiders, people from whom sudden gusts of hatred might be anticipated, people less sensitive, intelligent, and moral than ourselves. We were also taught that the lesson of our dark history is that we could rely on no one."

Steven Steinlight

72 posted on 11/17/2001 11:56:05 AM PST by malarski
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To: ninachka
THIS is a unique Russian trait!) From my experience Poles and Irish are also good at it.
73 posted on 11/17/2001 12:00:45 PM PST by malarski
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To: Otto von Bismark
God made promises to the Jews that he will keep. If Satan can kill all the Jews he can call God a liar.
74 posted on 11/17/2001 12:09:11 PM PST by marbren
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To: dennisw
10 years after the revolution Jews were not running Russia

Which means that for the first 10 years they did. And what about Beria, idealistically running KGB till December 24, 1953?

75 posted on 11/17/2001 12:11:50 PM PST by malarski
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To: madrussian
They don't have such a table. So the nazi web site you get it from is your head, haha.

I don't see how it is "nazi" to point out that the Poles are taking credit for the accomplishments of people they have driven out of their country. It is as if the Germans were to claim credit for Einstein.

Poland has had 10 Nobel Prize winners for science, an impressive number, but only one, Marie Curie, would be allowed to live in Poland today.

76 posted on 11/17/2001 1:36:26 PM PST by Inyokern
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To: malarski
And what about Beria, idealistically running KGB till December 24, 1953?

There have been many accusations that Beria was a Jew, but I have seen no proof of it. As far as I can tell, Beria was a Georgian.

His predecessor, Felix Dzerzinski, of course, was a Pole.

77 posted on 11/17/2001 1:39:49 PM PST by Inyokern
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To: Inyokern
The web site calls them "Polish-origin", so they define them correctly.

Perhaps, they don't realize the amount of resentment some Jews have towards Poland.

Einstein did develop as a person in Germany. I believe before the Nazis came to power, he was uninhibited in his career. His most famous articles were published in the begining of the century. Or are you counting Jews separately in every country? If you do so, then the question why there is "anti-semitism" has its answer right there.

And to your question why it is "nazi", you didn't ask that question when being pointed out how many Jewish Bolsheviks there were in Lenin's government.

78 posted on 11/17/2001 1:59:56 PM PST by madrussian
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To: independentmind
Lol ... I suppose anyone willing to believe this schlock is rube enough to invest in Russia.

What's funny? I was at a friend's house the other night and had to ask, "What is 'The Protocols of Zion'?"

He explained what it was and why he had it. I explained why I wanted to read through it and he lent it to me.

The full title page reads:

United We Stand, Divided We Fall

THE PROTOCOLS

of the meetings of the

LEARNED ELDERS OF ZION

with
Preface and Explanatory Notes

Translated from the Russian Text by
Victor E. Marsden
Formerly Russian Correspondent of "The Morning Post"

Naturally, Marsden was inexplicably released from (not executed in) the Peter&Paul prison. Though it made him ill to translate the diabolical text into English at the British Museum, he perservered. Of course, the exact details of his death remain a mystery.

Just searching with my stethoscope to get a feel for the beat of the telltale black heart I think still exists in spades.

I guess I found too many parallels between the blowing up of Moscow apartments of late and the blowing up of their own police stations in the '20's, Lenin's NEP and the capitalism (as privatized into the hands of Party faithful turned oligarchs) to be as confident as the rest in the comprehensive metanoia necessary for glasnost or perestroika to be genuine.

79 posted on 11/17/2001 2:00:31 PM PST by Askel5
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To: independentmind
Putin sounds to me like he's trying to please someone--most likely that someone is willing to invest in Russia.

No doubt about it.

80 posted on 11/17/2001 2:10:58 PM PST by madrussian
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To: madrussian
No doubt about it.

I knew if I tried hard enough I could find something about which we agree.:o)

81 posted on 11/17/2001 2:31:18 PM PST by independentmind
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To: madrussian
The web site calls them "Polish-origin", so they define them correctly. Perhaps, they don't realize the amount of resentment some Jews have towards Poland.

It is a well-known fact that Jews in Eastern Europe, including Poland, were never considered citizens of the countries in which they lived. It seems to me that, if the country in which they lived did not give them full citizenship, and in fact, did its best to drive them out, that country has no right to claim credit for their accomplishments.

Or are you counting Jews separately in every country?

The United States is a completely different situation. Jews have full citizenship here.

82 posted on 11/17/2001 2:40:35 PM PST by Inyokern
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To: Otto von Bismark
It may sound naive, but I asked myself many times, why it is, that so many people/countrys hate the Jews. What the hell did they do wrong

I'm not sure either. I try to find answers in an available literature. This piece is written by an American Jew so I have no choice but assume that he's not an antisemite.

In the early 1990s, University of Iowa journalism professor Stephen Bloom, feeling alienated in Iowa City, went searching for his Jewish heritage. He thought he could find it in Postville, a small town in northeast Iowa, where he discovered there was an enclave of ultra-Orthodox Jews. This book, framed as both personal journey and examination of cultural clashes in the American experiment of multiculturalism, documents what became his profound shock, and disappointment. In looking for romantic myths and legends of the Jewish past, he found instead a jarring ghost from Jewish history and traditional identity that deeply troubled him.

The story centers upon (...) Chabad Lubavitcher Hasids ("the pious") who in 1987 bought a slaughterhouse in Postville (population: about 1,400), imported hundreds of non-Jewish illegal alien laborers to work for $6 an hour in oppressive conditons, and, since then, have been taking over the town. They also bring pollution to the local river, at least two attempted murders, and Iowa state lawsuits against the company. Bloom hears such tales first from angry local non-Jewish townspeople and initally assumes that their perspective is merely an expression of anti-Jewish prejudice. The longer the author spends in the town, however, and the more he time he spends with the ultra-Orthodox Jews who seek to pull him into their community, the more he accepts the fact that it is not "anti-Semitism" that fuels the outrage felt by longtime Postville residents, but verifiable Jewish hostility, discrimination, and exploitation of non-Jews. A range of classical "anti-Semitic" canards against the ultra-Orthodox Bloom finds to be true. "Many of the Hasidim I had encountered in Postville pretended to be holy," writes Bloom, "but their actions displayed bigotry and racism of the worst degree. (...) This book is a must read for anyone who seeks to honestly understand the verifiable origins of what is popularly known as "anti-Semitism".

Postville A Clash of Cultures in Heartland America, by Stephen G. Bloom,

As you can see, von Bismarck, all you need is a 1000 Postvilles plus a 1000 years of history and here you have it: a hatred.
We're lucky the US is a very young country and that there is not too many unwashed peasants.

83 posted on 11/17/2001 5:12:41 PM PST by CommiesOut
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To: madrussian; CatoRenasci
They set themselves apart from the society. There is no universal law that various people will target Jews for no reason.

Nonsense. Medieval society was based on a senseless denigration of trade, since aristotle disliked trade and insisted that even if both parties agreed to it and felt they were better off for the trade, one was being ripped off. Since someone needed to do it, medieval society set up a caste to trade & lend money, which would be afforded opportunities denied others, but persecuted for enjoying them. Hypocrisy has its price, which is why it must be fought everywhere.

Today few hate commerce, and thus the root ideological problems that led to it have gone, as, I trust, eventually will go the racial bias resting on the same. natural law would have no less. In this sense Marxism was not a failed futuristic ideology, but a destructive anachronism. In this sense, Russia only joined modernity in the 1990s. Time heals all wounds.

84 posted on 11/17/2001 5:54:01 PM PST by a history buff
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To: Otto von Bismark
Another interesting review of Bloom's book:
More
and chat with the author:
More
85 posted on 11/17/2001 6:03:15 PM PST by CommiesOut
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To: a history buff
Your tendency to explain everything by economic relations is mechanistic and is similar to Marxism in that regard.
86 posted on 11/17/2001 6:14:34 PM PST by madrussian
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To: Inyokern
It is a well-known fact that Jews in Eastern Europe, including Poland, were never considered citizens of the countries in which they lived.

It's not known to me. And if there were tensions, the blame should probably be assigned equally. And what about Western Europe and Einstein?

The United States is a completely different situation. Jews have full citizenship here.

So I guess they should be primarily loyal to America and not Israel, eh?

87 posted on 11/17/2001 6:17:42 PM PST by madrussian
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To: madrussian
Man, now you sound like you personally deported 48 million Germans and robbed poor Czech children.
88 posted on 11/17/2001 6:29:38 PM PST by CommiesOut
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To: madrussian
I know. Of course, I think St. Thomas Aquinas dabbled in economics, so my definition of economics is a little broader than most. And Adam Smith taught ethics. Economics does not explain everything. But when the economics don't work, little else will either. IMO unless they feel severely maltreated, people want to eat first, and worry about the rest later.
89 posted on 11/17/2001 6:33:07 PM PST by a history buff
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To: independentmind
We didn't disagree a lot, or at least I don't remember.
90 posted on 11/17/2001 6:33:50 PM PST by madrussian
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To: CommiesOut
Those poor Germans. It's amazing how Pollacks are hated more by Jews than Germans. What have you done that's not in the history books, some virtual unknown holocaust?
91 posted on 11/17/2001 6:35:14 PM PST by madrussian
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To: a history buff
People want to eat and provide for their families. That's like one of the Newton's laws of mechanics. Then the complexity of the world can hardly be deduced from those simple laws.
92 posted on 11/17/2001 6:37:23 PM PST by madrussian
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To: madrussian
I wouldn's say Jews. Just one unhappy guy. We cannot generalize.
The other one can't be Jewish. Mother-in-law sounds more like a secret Goebbels admirer: hates Poland, posts ugly nazi propaganda pictures. Very strange type.
93 posted on 11/17/2001 6:42:22 PM PST by CommiesOut
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To: WriteOn
Would that be like Stalin? No. That was Semitism he tried to wipe out...

Exactly!

94 posted on 11/17/2001 6:42:40 PM PST by HeartOfDixie
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To: CommiesOut
Very strange type.

Must be one of those guys out to discredit Jews and portray them in the least favorable light.

95 posted on 11/17/2001 6:44:37 PM PST by madrussian
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To: WriteOn
Would that be like Stalin? No. That was Semitism he tried to wipe out...

Isn't it amazing how a Georgian managed to wrestle the power from the Jewish Bolsheviks, who despised the little awkward quite guy, and finish them off one by one?

By the way, Stalin was one the main proponents of Israel's creation. And I hear the Soviet Union was quite liked by Jews as a country designed by their kind.

96 posted on 11/17/2001 6:47:54 PM PST by madrussian
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To: Inyokern
It is a well-known fact that Jews in Eastern Europe, including Poland, were never considered citizens of the countries in which they lived.

Inny,
As usual, I have to correct your geographical and historical mistakes made in the above posted sentence.
1) Poland is not located in Eastern Europe.
2) Jews who lived in Europe before WWII were citizens of the countries that they lived in.

97 posted on 11/17/2001 7:43:14 PM PST by malarski
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To: madrussian
What have you done that's not in the history books, some virtual unknown holocaust?

Leave it to our friend. I bet he's working on a very obvious link between M. Curie-Sklodowska and Nagasaki.

98 posted on 11/17/2001 8:43:42 PM PST by CommiesOut
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To: madrussian
Btw, I'm jealous that you are called only "a pestilence" for posting an article about Afghanistan.
There is no justice in this world...
99 posted on 11/17/2001 9:37:43 PM PST by CommiesOut
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Comment #100 Removed by Moderator


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