[balrog666]

your comment above is one reason I'm so enthusiastic about the New Urbanist program. For all of its flaws, I think that it does produce more livable cities.

A-ha, you are one of those New Urbanist nuts! We'll just have to disagree on that. It has too many flaws and first among them is forcing people to give up choices in how and where to live.

[cicero's_son]

And you don't think that current zoning laws force people to give up choices?

Honestly, I get the feeling that some conservatives think the New Urbanists invented zoning laws.