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Palestine, a Land virtually laid waste with little population
EretzYisroel.org -- excerpt from "From Time Immemorial" ^ | 1984 | Joan Peters

Posted on 01/09/2002 4:48:50 AM PST by Sabertooth


Palestine, a Land virtually laid waste with little population 

A review of Palestine, before the era of prosperity began with the late nineteenth-century renewal of Jewish land settlement, shows that periodically Palestine was virtually laid waste, and its population suffered acute decline.

An enormous swell of Arab population could only have resulted from immigration and in-migration (from Jordan and the West Bank to the coastal area). It is helpful to see the land that was virtually emptied-and why.

Dio Cassius, writing at the time, described the ruin of the land beginning with the destruction of Judah:

Of their forts the fifty strongest were razed to the ground. Nine hundred and eighty-five of their best-known villages were destroyed....

Thus the whole of Judea became desert, as indeed had been foretold to the Jews before the war. For the tomb of Solomon, whom these folk celebrate in their sacred rites, fell of its own accord into fragments, and wolves and hyenas, many in number, roamed howling through their cities.1

One historian after another has reported the same findings.
In the twelve and a half centuries between the Arab conquest in the seventh century and the beginnings of the Jewish return in the 1880's, Palestine was laid waste. Its ancient canal and irrigation systems were destroyed and the wondrous fertility of which the Bible spoke vanished into desert and desolation... Under the Ottoman empire of the Turks, the policy of disfoliation continued; the hillsides were denuded of trees and the valleys robbed of their topsoil.2
In 1590 a "simple English visitor" to Jerusalem wrote, "Nothing there is to bescene but a little of the old walls, which is yet Remayning and all the rest is grasse, mosse and Weedes much like to a piece of Rank or moist Grounde."3

"While Tiberias was being resettled by Jews from Papal states, whose migration was approved by a papal Bull, Nazareth was continuing its decline." A Franciscan pilgrim translated a Latin Manuscript that reported that " 'A house of robbers, murderers, the inhabitants are Saracens.... It is a lamentable thing to see thus such a town. We saw nothing more stony, full of thorns and desert.'"4  A hundred years afterward, Nazareth was, in 1697, "an inconsiderable village.... Acre a few poor cottages ... nothing here but a vast and spacious ruin." Nablus consisted of two streets with many people, and Jericho was a "poor nasty village."5

In the mid-1700s, British archaeologist Thomas Shaw wrote that the land in Palestine was "lacking in people to till its fertile soil."6 An eighteenth-century French author and historian, Count Constantine Frangois Volney, wrote of Palestine as the "ruined" and "desolate" land.

In "Greater Syria," which included Palestine,

Many parts ... lost almost all their peasantry. In others.... the recession was great but not so total.7
Count Volney reported that, "In consequence of such wretched government, the greater part of the Pachilics [Provinces] in the empire are impoverished and laid waste." Using one province as an example, Volney reported that
... upwards of three thousand two hundred villages were reckoned; but, at present, the collector can scarcely find four hundred. Such of our merchants as have resided there twenty years have themselves seen the greater part of the environs ... become depopulated. The traveller meets with nothing but houses in ruins, cisterns rendered useless, and fields abandoned. Those who cultivated them have fled... 8

... And can we hope long to carry on an advantageous commerce with a country which is precipitately hastening to ruin? 9

Another writer, describing "Syria" (and Palestine) some sixty years later in 1843, stated that, in Volney's day, "the land had not fully reached its last prophetic degree of desolation and depopulation." 10

From place to place the reporters varied, but not the reports: J. S. Buckingham described his visit of 1816 to Jaffa, which "has all the appearances of a poor village, and every part of it that we saw was of corresponding meanness."11 Buckingham described Ramle, "where, as throughout the greater part of Palestine, the ruined portion seemed more extensive than that which was inhabited."12

After a visit in 1817-1818, travelers reported that there was not "a single boat of any description on the lake [Tiberias]."13 In a German encyclopedia published in 1827, Palestine was depicted as "desolate and roamed through by Arab bands of robbers."14

Throughout the nineteenth century the abandonment and dismal state of the terrain was lamented. In 1840 an observer, who was traveling through, wrote of his admiration for the Syrian "fine spirited race of men" whose "population is on the decline."15 While scorning the idea of Jewish colonization, the writer observed that the once populous area between Hebron and Bethlehem was "now abandoned and desolate" with "dilapidated towns."16 Jerusalem consisted of "a large number of houses ... in a dilapidated and ruinous state," and "the masses really seem to be without any regular employment." The "masses" of Jerusalem were estimated at less than 15,000 inhabitants, of whom more than half the population were Jews.17

The British Consul in Palestine reported in 1857 that

The country is in a considerable degree empty of inhabitants and therefore its greatest need is that of a body of population.... 18
In the 1860s, it was reported that "depopulation is even now advancing."19 At the same time, H. B. Tristram noted in his journal that
The north and south [of the Sharon plain] land is going out of cultivation and whole villages are rapidly disappearing from the face of the earth. Since the year 1838, no less than 20 villages there have been thus erased from the map [by the Bedouin] and the stationary population extirpated. 20
Mark Twain, in his inimitable fashion, expressed scom for what he called the "romantic" and "prejudiced" accounts of Palestine after he visited the Holy Land in 1867.21 In one location after another, Twain registered gloom at his findings.
Stirring scenes ... occur in the valley [Jezreel] no more. There is not a solitary village throughout its whole extent-not for thirty miles in either direction. There are two or three small clusters of Bedouin tents, but not a single permanent habitation. One may ride ten miles hereabouts and not see ten human beings. 22
In fact, according to Twain, even the Bedouin raiders who attacked "so fiercely" had been imported: "provided for the occasion ... shipped from Jerusalem," by the Arabs who guarded each group of pilgrims.
They met together in full view of the pilgrims, after the battle, and took lunch, divided the baksheesh extorted in the season of danger and then accompanied the cavalcade home to the city! The nuisance of an Arab guard is one which is created by the sheikhs and the Bedouins together, for mutual profit... 23
To find ". . . the sort of solitude to make one dreary," one must, Twain wrote dramatically,
Come to Galilee for that... these unpeopled deserts, these rusty mounds of barrenness, that never, never do shake the glare from their harsh outlines, and fade and faint into vague perspective; that melancholy ruin of Capernaum: this stupid village of Tiberias, slumbering under its six funereal palms.... We reached Tabor safely .... We never saw a human being on the whole route. 24

Nazareth is forlorn .... Jericho the accursed lies a moldering ruin today, even as Joshua's miracle left it more than three thousand years ago: Bethlehem and Bethany, in their poverty and their humiliation, have nothing about them now to remind one that they once knew the high honor of the Savior's presence; the hallowed spot where the shepherds watched their flocks by night, and where the angels sang, "Peace on earth, good will to men," is untenanted by any living creature... Bethsaida and Chorzin have vanished from the earth, and the "desert places" round about them, where thousands of men once listened to the Savior's voice and ate the miraculous bread, sleep in the hush of a solitude that is inhabited only by birds of prey and skulking foxes.25

"Palestine sits in sackcloth and ashes.... desolate and unlovely.. . Twain wrote with remone. it is dreamland." 26

Jaffa, a French traveler wrote late in the nineteenth century, was still a ruin27. Haifa, to the north, had 6,000 souls and "nothing remarkable about it," another Frenchman, the author of France's foremost late-nineteenth-century Holy Land guidebook, commented. Haifa "can be crossed in five minutes" on the way to the city of Acre, he judged; that magnificent port was commercially idle. 28

Many writers, such as the Reverend Samuel Manning, mourned the atrophy of the coastal plain, the Sharon Plain, "the exquisite fertility and beauty of which made it to the Hebrew mind a symbol of prosperity."

But where were the inhabitants? This fertile plain, which might support an immense population, is almost a solitude.... Day by day we were to learn afresh the lesson now forced upon us, that the denunciations of ancient prophecy have been fulfilled to the very letter -- "the land is left void and desolate and without inhabitants." 29

Report followed depressing report, as the economist-historian Professor Fred Gottheil pointed out: "a desolate country"; 30 "wretched desolation and neglect";31 "almost abandoned now"32 "unoccupied";33  "uninhabited";34  "thinly populated."35


In a book called Heth and Moab, Colonel C. R. Conder pronounced the Palestine of the 1880s "a ruined land." According to Conder,

so far as the Arab race is concerned, it appears to be decreasing rather than otherwise.36
Conder had also visited Palestine earlier, in 1872, and he commented on the continuing population decline within the nine or ten-year interim between his visits:
The Peasantry who are the backbone of the population, have     diminished most sadly in numbers and wealth.37
Pierre Loti, the noted French writer, wrote in 1895 of his visit to the land: "I traveled through sad Galilee in the spring, and I found it silent. . . ." In the vicinity of the Biblical Mount Gilboa, "As elsewhere, as everywhere in Palestine, city and palaces have returned to the dust; This melancholy of abandonment, weighs on all the Holy Land." 38

David Landes summarized the causes of the shriveling number of inhabitants:

As a result of centuries of Turkish neglect and misrule, following on the earlier ravages of successive conquerors, the land had been given over to sand, marsh, the anopheles mosquito, clan feuds, and Bedouin marauders. A population of several millions had shrunk to less than one tenth that number-perhaps a quarter of a million around 1800, and 300,000 at mid-century.39

Palestine had indeed become "sackcloth and ashes."

1. Dio Cassius, History of the Romans, lxix, 12-14, cited by de Haas, History, pp. 55-56. De Haas adds: "In the third of the Schweich Lectures of 1922 the late Israel Abrahams ('Campains in Palestine from Alexander the Great' London, 1927) belittles Dio, Cassius' record of this war, and repeats the suggestion that the Jews were influenced by Hadrian 'consent to the rebuilding of the Temple.' This rebuilding myth, depending upon the alleged visit of Hadrian to Palestine on the death of Trajan, has been fully dealt with by Henderson in his biography of Hadrian. All the dimensions of the war, its gravity, and its duration, are fully attested by the inscriptions relating to the legions and by the honors distributed at the end of the campaign. The archeological records, carefully analyzed, support Dio Cassius and not his would-be corrector.

2. Carl Hermann Voss, "The Palestine Problem Today, Israel and Its Neighbors" (Boston, 1953), p. 13. 

3. Gunner Edward Webbe, Palestine Exploration Fund, Quarterly Statement, p. 86, cited in de Haas, History, p. 338.

4. De Haas, History, p. 337, citing Palestine Exploration Fund, Quarterly Statement, 1925, p. 197, translation of Latin manuscnpt by a Franciscan pilgrim.

5. Henry Maundrell, The Journal of Henry Maundrellfrom Aleppo to Jerusalem, 1697, Bohn's edition (London, 1848), respectively pp. 477, 428, 450.

6. Thomas Shaw, Travels and Observations Relating to Several Parts of Barbary and the Levant (London, 1767), p. 331ff. De Haas notes: "Hasselquist, the Swedish botanist, munching some roasted ears of' green wheat which a shepherd generously shared with him, in the plain of Acre, reflected that the white bread of his northern homeland and the roasted wheat ears symbolized the difference between the two civilizations' Had he known that Mukaddasi boasted in the tenth century of the excellence Of Palestine's white bread he might have been still more impressed by the low estate to which the country had fallen in seven hundred years.... Hasselquist joined a party of four thousand pilgrims who went to Jericho under an escort of three hundred soldiers. He estimated that four thousand Christians, mostly of the eastern rites, entered Jaffa each year, and as many Jews. The Armenian Convent in Jerusalem alone could accommodate a thousand persons. The botanist viewed the pilgrim tolls as the best resource of an uncultivated and uninhabited country. . ~ . Ramleh was a ruin." (Emphasis added.) De Haas, History, pp. 349, 358, 360, citing Frederich Hasselquist, Reise nach Palastina, etc., 1749-1752, pp. 139, 145-146, 190.

7. Norman Lewis, "The Frontier of Settlement in Syria, 1800-19 50," in Charles Issawi, ed., The Economic History of the Middle East (Chicago, 1966), p. 260.

8. Count Constantine F. Volney, Travels Through Syria and Egypt in the Years 1783, 1784, 1785 (London, 1788), Vol. 2, p. 147. According to Volney, ". . . we with difficulty recognize Jerusalem.... remote from every road, it seems neither to have been calculated for a considerable mart of commerce, nor the centre of a great consumption.... [the population] is supposed to amount to twelve to fourteen thousand.... The second place deserving notice, is Bait-el-labm, or Bethlehem, ... The soil is the best in all these districts ... but as is the case everywhere else, cultivation is wanting. They reckon about six hundred men in this village capable Of bearing arms.... The third and last place of note is Habroun, or Hebron, the most powerful village in all this quarter, and able to arm eight or nine hundred men . . ." (pp. 303-325).

9. Volney, Travels, Vol. 2, p. 431.

10. A. Keith, The Land of Israel (Edinburgh, 1843), p. 465. "The population (viz., of the whole of Syria), rated by Volney at two million and a half, is now estimated at half that amount."

11. J.S. Buckingham, Travels in Palestine (London, 1821), p. 146. 

12. Ibid., p. 162.

13. James Mangles and the Honorable C.L. Irby, Travels in Egypt and Nubia (London, 1823), p. 295.

14. Brockhaus, Alig. deutsch Real-Encyklopaedie, 7th ed. (Leipzig, 1827), Vol. VIII, p. 206.

15. S. Olin, Travels in Egypt, Arabia Petraea and the Holy Land (New York, 1843), Vol. 2, pp. 438-439.

16. Ibid., pp. 77-78.

17. No. 238, "Report of the Commerce of Jerusalem During the Year 1863," F.O. 195/808, May 1864. ". . . The population of the City of Jerusalem is computed at 15,000, of whom about 4,500 Moslem, 8,000 Jews, and the rest Christians of various denominations. . ." From A.H. Hyamson, ed., The British Consulate in Jerusalem, 2 vols. (London, 1939-1941), Vol. 2, p. 331.

18. James Finn to the Earl of Clarendon, Jerusalem, September 15, 1857, F.O. 78/1294 (Pol. No. 36). Finn wrote further that "The result of my observations is, that we have here Jews, who have been to the United States, but have returned to their Holy Land -Jews of Jerusalem do go to Australia and instead of remaining there, do return hither, even without the allurements of agriculture and its concomitants." Ibid., 1, pp. 249-52.

19. J.B. Forsyth, A Few Months in the East (Quebec, 1861), p. 188. 

20. H.B. Tristram, The Land of1sraek A Journal of Travels in Palestine (London, 1865), p. 490.

21. Mark Twain, The Innocents Abroad, pp. 349, 366, 367. 

22. Ibid., p. 349.

23. Ibid., p. 429.

24. Ibid., p. 366, 375.

25. Ibid., pp. 441-442.

26. Ibid.

27. Jules Hoche, Les Pays des croisades (Paris, n.d.), p. 10, cited by David Landes, "Palestine Before the Zionists," Commentary, Feb., 1976, p. 49. 

28. Brother Lievin de Hamme, Guide indicateur, Vol. Ill, pp. 163, 190.

29. The Reverend Samuel Manning, Those Holy Fields (London, 1874), pp. 14-17. W.M. Thomson reiterated the Reverend Manning's observations: "How melancholy is this utter desolation! Not a house, not a trace of inhabitants, not even shepherds, seen everywhere else, appear to relieve the dull monotony.... Isaiah says that Sharon shall be wilderness, and the prediction has become a sad and impressive reality." Thomson, The Land and the Book (London: T. Nelsons & Sons, 1866), p. 506ff.

30. W.C. Prime, Tent Life in the Holy Land (New York, 1857), p. 240, cited by Fred Gottheil, "The Population of Palestine, Circa 1875," Middle Eastern Studies, Vol. 15, no. 3, October 1979.

31. S.C. Bartlett, From Egypt to Palestine (New York, 1879), p. 409, cited in ibid.

32. Ibid., p. 410.

33. W. Allen, The Dead Sea: A New Route to India (London, 1855), p. 113, cited in ibid. 62), p. 466,

34. W.M. Thomson, The Land and the Book (New York: Harper Bros., 18 cited in ibid.

35. E.L. Wilson, In Scripture Lands (New York, n.d.), p. 316, cited in ibid.

36. Colonel C.R. Conder, Heth and Moab (London, 1883), pp. 380, 376.

37. ibid., p. 366.

38. Pierre Loti, La Galilee (Paris, 1895), pp. 37-41, 69, 85-86, 69, cited by David Landes, "Palestine Before the Zionists," Commentary, February 1976, pp. 48-49.

39. Landes, "Palestine," p. 49.

This page was produced by Joseph E. Katz
Middle Eastern Political and Religious History Analyst 
Brooklyn, New York 
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Source: "From Time Immemorial" by Joan Peters, 1984, a national

Portions Copyright © 1984 Joan Peters, Portions Copyright © 2001 Joseph Katz
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To: Magician
Or wants to hear it.

You've stumbled into the truth.

81 posted on 01/09/2002 8:14:54 AM PST by Romulus
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To: Romulus
"A hundred years ago, (Los Angeles was) "a Land virtually laid waste with little population." It was just there for the taking, I suppose."

Precisely, if you go back a just few decades further.

California's presence as one of the United States is a consequence of the Mexican-American War. British authority over Transjordan is a consequence of WWI.

That's how maps get drawn.


82 posted on 01/09/2002 8:17:56 AM PST by Sabertooth
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To: Goblins
Citizenship was removed, property confiscated, ...It was and is truly appalling. Unfortunately the state of Israel likes to treat arabs the same way...

Not exactly, Arabs were given full citizenship in Israel and Land for Peace means giving land not confiscating it. So we see that the Jews basicly treated the Arabs quite the opposite to the way the Arabs treat the Jews.

83 posted on 01/09/2002 8:23:31 AM PST by American in Israel
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To: ppaul
Numbers don't always mean everyting, if they did Israel would have been no more by the end of may 1948.
Israel is a fact, a great big 800lb gorrila fact of life. By this I mean that the arab world have not yet come to grips with the fact that they are there and are not going away. If Israel even thinks they are going to lose...well they do have nukes, and I believe they will take everyone down with them.
84 posted on 01/09/2002 8:30:43 AM PST by Valin
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To: Sabertooth
Seems to prove that Muslims are the BIGGEST parasites on the planet...they only want the territory when someone else wants it, and makes it livable. After someone else pours in the $$$ and provides the infrastructure...THEN it's "the Palestinian Homeland".

Break out the daisy cutters...I think we have a target!

85 posted on 01/09/2002 8:41:43 AM PST by Itzlzha
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To: Sabertooth
California's presence as one of the United States is a consequence of the Mexican-American War.

"Might makes right." Just so long as we know where you're coming from.

86 posted on 01/09/2002 8:45:18 AM PST by Romulus
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To: weikel
Thanks. Makes it easier to understand them
87 posted on 01/09/2002 8:48:05 AM PST by dennisw
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To: Goblins
I think any jews forced from arab nations and their children should have the right to return and am prepared to say so. I also beleive the same is true for arabs forced from jewish nations.

And I suppose you believe that the "displaced Jews" have the right to return to the Gas Chambers...because having Jews return to the Muslim countries IS a death sentence! Are you prepared to say THAT?

Unlike the Palis, who CAN live in peace in Israel, if they choose to...but their way is the way of TERROR and SUICIDE BOMBERS!

THESE TERRORISTS are the ones forced from Israel.

The lesson is clear...play nice in the big kids sandbox, and all's cool. Palis and Muslims can NEVER play nice...they think the sandbox ix THEIR property!

88 posted on 01/09/2002 8:57:06 AM PST by Itzlzha
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To: American in Israel; Goblins; Sabertooth; Valin
Not exactly, Arabs were given full citizenship in Israel.....

And, voting rights - something they do not enjoy in any other Arab country.
Disagree? Name one!

89 posted on 01/09/2002 8:57:06 AM PST by ppaul
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To: Romulus
"Might makes right." Just so long as we know where you're coming from.

"Straw Man makes a bad argument." Back atcha.

I'm looking at History, what are you looking at? What's the reality? How else do borders get drawn? How else do they get enforced?

If you've got a better suggestion, we're still waiting. How would you draw and enforce borders? By what authority would you be appointed? How would you enforce your authority?

Was the Ottoman Empire an innocent bystander in WWI? Nope. They were an aggressor, and they lost. The consequence of that bad decision and subsequent defeat is that they lost their Empire.

Did Britain keep Transjordan? Nope. They gave it up.

What's your complaint?


90 posted on 01/09/2002 8:57:56 AM PST by Sabertooth
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To: Itzlzha; Goblins
.....Arabs forced from jewish nations.

What nations?
What Arabs?

91 posted on 01/09/2002 8:59:20 AM PST by ppaul
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To: ppaul
The ones that attack Israeli citizens, and flee across borders to escape...they are "forced" out of Israel, because "those damn Jews just won't lay down and die"!

They won't leave the poor Pali terrorists ALONE!

92 posted on 01/09/2002 9:06:00 AM PST by Itzlzha
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To: weikel; goblins
Not that it will much matter to you but it's good form not only to flag folks to your flamebait but -- when mischaracterizing a post -- provide a handy link to same.

If you can, please point out the basis on which you've "reasoned" that I'm a Communist.

Only an idiot confuses democracy or freedom with capitalism.

Capitalism has much to recommend it -- particularly when compared to socialism -- but it has its fatal flaws. For instance, it tends to ground out the individual -- both persons and independent businesses -- in favor always of the merger toward the mega-corporation. That's a decided loss of individual rights and leads directly to fascist State Corporations ... whether or not "commies" like Clinton are so brazen as to float the idea of investing our surplus for us in State Corporations (a la national socialists or "Nazis").

And, let's face it, it's a purely materialistic system that -- without moral actors -- ends up some Exercise in Selfishness, a la Ayn Rand, where your only thin hope is that others will treat you nice because they want you to treat them nice. Fat chance, bub. Odds are not in your favor.

So ... at heart, your capitalists and the commies BOTH are living in a purely material world. Given the historical complicity and philosophical similarities in many respects between the commies and the fascists (as illustrated using Clinton above and despite all the sound and fury they can muster to the contrary like some ballyhooed Sino-Soviet split or sumpin') what you think of as capitalism is no match whatsoever for the combo of national socialism and communism.

If you look back a ways, you'll find that commies can "do" capitalism. Check out Lenin and his reliance on capitalists like Armand Hammer to help out with the NEP in Russia.

Bottom line ... both capitalism and communism (and its Corsican brother national socialism) are means of organizing society through economic -- not human -- terms. (Again, capitalism is far closer to allowing for human dignity and respecting human nature with its so-called inalienable rights, but there's no particular moral code built into capitalism. Quite the opposite, despite all the huffing and puffing of the Randians who worship a woman who could describe pregancy as an "infection".)


93 posted on 01/09/2002 9:27:28 AM PST by Askel5
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To: Askel5
Sorry your either a capitalist or communist their is no middle ground in my mind.
94 posted on 01/09/2002 9:33:48 AM PST by weikel
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To: My2Cents
The Jews are not indigenious to the land either.

Since the first Israeli-Arab war in 1948 the Palestinians have experienced several waves of exile and lived in various host countries. To the refugees of 1948 must be added the hundreds of thousands displaced in 1967. These refugees together constitute the Palestinian diaspora. According to the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics, the total number of Palestinians throughout the world in 1998 was 8,041,569, made up as follows:

Israel : 910,510
Gaza : 1,039,580
West Bank :1,857,872
Jordan : 2,328,308
Lebanon : 430,183
Syria : 465,662
Egypt : 48,784
Saudi Arabia : 274,762
Kuwait : 37,696
Other Gulf states :105,578
Iraq, Libya : 74,284
Other Arab states : 5,544
The Americas : 203,558
Other : 259,248
Total : 8,041,569
http://www.en.monde-diplomatique.fr/focus/mideast/question-3-3-1-en

Seems it is easy to be a democracy when you have made sure your the majority.

95 posted on 01/09/2002 9:34:32 AM PST by Goblins
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To: Askel5
Your not a communist as far as I know. Are you?
96 posted on 01/09/2002 9:36:44 AM PST by Goblins
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To: weikel
We intimated that we loved freedom. You apparantly took that to be an attack on capitalism. Boo hoo!
97 posted on 01/09/2002 9:39:46 AM PST by Goblins
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To: weikel
Oh, come on, Weikel. Be serious. Your reasoning here is about as sound as the President's when he says folks are either "with him" and his War on Terror or "with the terrorists".

Besides ... you're cutting out nearly ALL of the elite and the vast majority of our representatives and career government bureaucrats and policy wonks if you're going to deny the existence of "The THIRD Way".

(Now, I can deny this "Third Way" as poppycock and the fantasy of Useful Idiots who are so bone-numbing stupid as to believe in successful co-existence with Communists.)

But that's because -- unlike you or they -- I'm not so silly as to believe all possible manner of economic structure must boil down to either capitalism or communism or some "compromise" between the two.

98 posted on 01/09/2002 9:46:17 AM PST by Askel5
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To: Goblins
Your not a communist as far as I know. Are you?

Not to worry -- only in Weikel's mind! Regards, Goblins.

99 posted on 01/09/2002 9:47:21 AM PST by Askel5
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To: weikel
Sorry your either a capitalist or communist their is no middle ground in my mind.

1. Not true.

2. Not relevant to this thread.


100 posted on 01/09/2002 9:52:14 AM PST by Sabertooth
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