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To: JMJ333
Yes I can, because I don't live in subjective utopia. Concrete moral truths exist.

They most certainly do. Now prove that drug use being immoral is one of them.

Prostitution reduces a human being to an object because that is what happens when you act sexually base. It strips a person of dignity, and denegrates the sacredness of sex, marriage, family, and human life.

I've never seen an object do anything sexually base. And there are plenty of undignified people who aren't objects, and there are people who do unsacred things without being objects.

Just say that fornication itself is immoral and be done with it.

BTW, should it be illegal for unmarried people to have sex without money changing hands?

There are victims of drug usage and prostitution also. It has a negative effect on society--the society which we have a moral obligation to pass on as healthy as possible for American children.

Society? Too nebulous. If Dope Smokin' Joe takes a toke of the old whacky weed, name the person who suffers an invasion of his person or property.

If the "values of morality and legality" are not reinforced among the public and in the media and social institutions, the agreements, declarations, and most sophisticated juridical instruments will be useless. Without a clear conscience of what is right and wrong, our societies will be incapable of being immune to the plague of crime.

You can reinforce something without making it illegal to do otherwise.

I don't recall asking you to wage physical war. I'm talking about the arena of ideas.

No, you're not talking about ideas. You're talking about making it illegal to do what you consider (rightly or wrongly) to be immoral. If something's illegal, you don't counter it with ideas, you use police officers and administer punishments.

58 posted on 02/12/2002 6:28:43 PM PST by A.J.Armitage
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To: A.J.Armitage
Now prove that drug use being immoral is one of them.

I'll use pot as an example. None of the effects produced by smoking are virtuous. Gluttony, laziness, lowered sexual inhibitions, are all vices. Vices shouldn't be encouraged by legitimizing the behavior through legalization.

I've never seen an object do anything sexually base. And there are plenty of undignified people who aren't objects, and there are people who do unsacred things without being objects. Just say that fornication itself is immoral and be done with it. BTW, should it be illegal for unmarried people to have sex without money changing hands?

Give me a break, A.J. By the term "object" I mean dehumanizing to base level. Prostitution helps create a moral and social climate conducive to sexual abuse and expoitation. I do believe that fornication is immoral, but I would like to stay on the topic of prostitution and drug use. The last question is too silly to answer.

Society? Too nebulous. If Dope Smokin' Joe takes a toke of the old whacky weed, name the person who suffers an invasion of his person or property.

We were talking legalization and immorality. Normalizing the behavior by making it legal will continue to push our society further away from our cultural foundations. Our kids deserve a better society than what you propose.

You can reinforce something without making it illegal to do otherwise.

Societal standards are important. Without them the line between relative and concrete becomes blurred. I have already given an argument in an earlier post on this.

No, you're not talking about ideas. You're talking about making it illegal to do what you consider (rightly or wrongly) to be immoral. If something's illegal, you don't counter it with ideas, you use police officers and administer punishments.

Prostitution and drugs are already illegal. I was specifically referring to fighting the culture war in the arena of ideas, which is what I am doing as we speak. Someone has to stand up for our foundation before its lost.

95 posted on 02/12/2002 7:45:52 PM PST by JMJ333
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