1. Agreed
2. A Christian magistrate must follow scripture but we don't have a theocracy here. You never establish vs 7-10 as applying to gov. All commentaries I've found list them as individual duties.
3. Agreed. (but still no specific duties listed)
I do however disagree with Frederick Nymeyer's contention that Paul was referring only to 'good' governments. Jesus commanded his followers to obey Roman law even though Rome was not a 'good' government.
4.Rom 13:8-10 is a list of individual duties, not a list of gov duties.
Additionally Rom 13:3-4 gives the power the authority to promote good.
Rom 13:3b "do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4a For he is the minister of God to thee for good."
5. Your contention is only toward the Christian magistrate. We don't have a Christian magistrate and won't until Jesus returns. I'll answer these issues anyway.
a. Paul is not limiting himself to just the last five commandments. Love fulfills the entire law. At no point in scripture is the law ever broken in pieces. When you violate one part of the law you break all of the law. It cannot be split.
b. We never need fear the state because God is on our side (or more correctly, we are on His side) and our salvation is assured in Jesus Christ. Scripture gives examples (Revelation as well as OT) of times when we may 'fear' the gov for what it can do to our bodies. We are commanded however not to fear it but to fear God for what He can do to our souls. We obey not out of fear of state but out of fear of God.
Remember that the state has only the power that God gives to it. We are to fear God's power given to the state only when we sin by breaking the law. So as long as we fear God (as commanded) we never need to fear the state. If the state is operating in accordance with God's laws then we have nothing to fear from it at all if we are also lawful. If the state is not operating according to God's laws (as it will in the end times or as it did during OT times) then we know that our soul is safe and the state can only temporarily discomfort us.
c.God never placed this requirement (to assure moral compliance) on any other gov that He set up (Babylon, Egypt,Rome,Greece, USA) Gov exists to keep civil order not to enforce moral compliance. Moral obedience has always been an individual duty. Of course God will use the gov to discipline us as detailed in Rom 13:1-6 for our failure to fulfill that individual duty as detailed in Rom 13:7-10.
Scripture tells us that Nebuchadnezzar was the servant of God (or at least the tool God used) to discipline Israel. Was the gov of Babylon righteous? It doesn't really matter, it's the tool God used at that time.
d. Disagree. You're assumption is invalid. You are assuming a perfect world where everyone is Christian. We don't have a Christian government and won't until Jesus returns. Scripture is totally sufficient for the Christian. Romans 13:1-6 tells the Christian how to relate to the gov which may or may not be Christian
e. Partially disagree. A Christian Magistrate is indeed bound by the individual duties listed in Rom 3:7-10. But a Christian citizen is bound by the requirements of Romans 13:1-10 regardless of whether that magistrate is Christian or not. We are to obey the gov as long as obeying the gov does not conflict with obeying God.
As a perfect example Daniel was required to follow all the ordinances of Babylon which did not conflict with his obedience of God. We live under the same commands.
This does not set up two moral codes. There is only one moral code. Scripture tells the Christian how to follow it in relation to any gov put over him. It does not instruct that gov in how to be moral.
[ A man, as an individual, may and should employ violence and coercion to restrain improper acts (especially those forbidden in the Sixth to Ninth Commandments). I may resist bodily harm, and adultery, and theft, and falsehood attempted on me and on others by a neighbor. But in regard to everything else I must leave my neighbor free and he must leave me free.
Your quoted author here gives gov the right to enforce mandatory DNA testing in order to resist adultery. But on with our discussion. ]
6. Neglects Romans 13:3-4 the Authority to promote good.
7. Promotion of good may cover these IF AND ONLY IF we the people (as government of this land) consider these to be good things. We (as Christians) have failed to maintain control of our government and our culture and the result is some of these programs.
Jesus never protested against Rome, nor did He command his followers to rebel against it, even though Rome practiced abomination. He did command his followers to obey the law.
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Not too bad of a study but it does not address what we were discussing. A Christian magistrate is indeed bound by all of the scripture, but scripture does not address the specific duties of government. It addresses the specific duties of Christians.
For the record I am a firm believer that the fedgov should be limited to it's constitutional duties of defense, foreign relations, regulation of interstate trade and the courts. However your angle of attack on the issue doesn't really work. We are forced to use the gov to recapture our culture and turn this place around. This is why I support mandatory DNA testing. It avoids defrauding cuckolded husbands and forces women to remain faithful (as they will be found out). If you don't want to submit to that than accept total responsibility for any child someone accuses you of fathering.
Likewise if you can't recognize the legitimacy of government then you can move somewhere where you can. The government here will not conform exactly to scripture until Jesus returns. We can work to bring it into a better alignment but only by being active in it, therefore I'd rather have you here and working towards a Godly government.
I appreciate the lack of personal attack in your post. Thank you.
GSA(P)
Thanks for the response!! I'll return with my First Rebuttal shortly (God willing).