Those Interrogation Memos Show Bush Cared

http://cuttingthroughthefog.blogspot.com/2009/04/those-interrogation-memos-showed-bush.html ^ | 4/25/2009 | Cranky George

[Petro]

Those Interrogation Memos Show Bush Cared If the Bush Administration didn't care about the legality of those so-called harsh interrogation techniques, we wouldn't have those memos giving legal opinion about their application and limitations. Instead, the "Administration" would have just gone ahead and done the interrogations. But, the fact that memos were being floated between the CIA, the Administration, and the Justice Department shows that there was an intent to stay within the legal boundaries of what is defined or not defined as torture.

[Valentine_W]

I support the previous Administration’s interrogation tactics, but I think the logic of this article is kind of flawed. Most critics will simply say that the Bush Administration needed to cover their a** and come up with legal support so they wouldn’t end up being tried at the Hague or something crazy like that. And really, no responsible or smart Administration would ignore the need to be able to defend their interrogation policies using the rule of law, especially if they want to be able to protect the folks on the front lines who are doing this.

[Rembrandt]

GWB will always be referred to as President Bush. Obammy will always be thought of as King or Emperor or Dictator barackski.

[Yardstick]

So you’re saying the administration grappled with the legalities of interrogation methods in order to meet the letter of the law and to cover their ass, but had no interest in meeting the spirit of the law? I dont’ see why that would be the case. I think it’s reasonable to think that their effort to establish the line where torture begins was at least in part motivated by not wanting to cross the line. For it to have been otherwise they would have had to have had no conscience, and I don’t think that’s true of Bush and the rest.

[Tuketu]

Somehow, I see this as just deserts when the prior Administration failed to prosecute the DIMS for Sedition, if not treason, Vote Fraud, Congressional Theft of whatever, etc.

Yes there were a few minor prosecutions but not as many as warranted.

[Valentine_W]

I think you’re being very idealistic, not that there’s anything wrong with that. Intelligence is a dirty business - it’s a thankless job and thanks to the Obama Administration’s recent actions, it’s going to be even harder to recruit people to be intelligence officers. I think that the previous Administration was very supportive and understanding of the nature of intelligence work, which included the interrogation of assets. Sometimes a** covering is not a bad thing and it’s nothing to be ashamed of.

[Yardstick]

I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with ass covering, just that it’s not either/or. I think the administration sought to determine the legal boundaries in order to 1) keep its ass covered but also to 2) uphold the standard that we wouldn’t torture. You have to know there the line is in order to not cross over it. Knowing where it lies serves a legal purpose but also a moral purpose.

[Logical me]

This makes very good sense and shows the concern the Bush Administration had for legal answers. But we are dealing with so many brain dead Americans they would never understand. Combine that with the insane RATS and King Obama that the Bush hate overrides any security problems they have released.

[Valentine_W]

Well, I am just a casual observer, and all I know is what I gather from reading articles on the internet or from books. I remember Cofer Black saying something to the effect that after 9/11 the “gloves came off”. That pretty much sums up my opinion of what happened since 9/11. Not sure if you have read about the black sites (much reported online), but you should, it may clarify some thoughts for you.

[Paige]

The SPIRIT OF the law? ROFLOLOL Oh you believe the Constitution lives and breathes, also?

When making a decision to abide by the law you abide by the “LETTER” of the Law.

Moreover, terrorist sent to prison by the military does not give them the same Constitutional rights as an “AMERICAN” citizen.

The only one I see without a conscious and who is vindictive is your Messiah Barack Hussein Obama.

Want proof - Thought you'd never ask:
“Don't think we're not keeping score, brother.” — Obama to Rep. Peter DeFazio, after the Democratic congressman voted against the stimulus bill.

[Dilbert56]

The articles point is correct: If the President didn’t care about the issue, these machinations wouldn’t have occurred. As it was, Congress was briefed and all the legalities were observed. Much better than scum like KSM deserved.

[Yardstick]

When making a decision to abide by the law you abide by the “LETTER” of the Law.

Please quote me the part of the law that spells out in detail what is torture and what is not. You can't, because it doesn't exist. That's why the Bush administration had to CREATE the letter of the law with regard to interrogation techniques. And to create the letter, you have to understand the spirit, which is in part a moral understanding. George Bush is a moral man with a conscience and the moral dimension would have been important to him.

The only one I see without a conscious and who is vindictive is your Messiah Barack Hussein Obama.

I'm starting to think you're some kind of idiot.

[Paige]

I’m an idiot? Because I quoted Barack Hussein Obama?

Now, I know what you are.

[Yardstick]

No, you’re an idiot because you think he’s my messiah.

[Paige]

Explaining your belief in the “SPIRIT” of the Law, makes those who choose to follow the Strict Literal Interpretation of the Constitution cringe.

Conservatives who believe in the “LETTER” of the Law, understand why we have a Constitution.

Now, you've made my list of who not to post to or pay attention too. Whether you're a conservative, moderate, leftie, etc., isn't the issue. The issue is the way in which you talk to others who do not agree with you.

[Yardstick]

How do you think the founders wrote the letter of the Constitution? By knowing the SPIRIT of the Constitution, that's how. The spirit comes before the letter. You have to have some sense of what the law should be, and why it should be that way, before you can formalize it in writing. Or do you think that all law has always existed for all time and that therefore we can just blindly follow its letter without considering its spirit?

The same thing applies to the Bush administration when it crafted the letter of the law regarding enhanced interrogation methods. The letter did not exist (or if it did, please tell me where), so they had to consider the spirit, which is to say morality, philosophy, intent -- the intangible things -- as they worked to determine the legal lines and set them down in writing.

The issue is the way in which you talk to others who do not agree with you.

So you accuse me out of the blue of having Obama as my "messiah" (presumably because I did not agree with you), but I'm the one at fault?

As I said before -- you're an idiot.

[Valentine_W]

I still think that people like George W. Bush and Dick Cheney sought legal justification for those interrogation techniques more to protect the people on the front lines, than the terrorists themselves (a philosophy I agree with). Quite frankly, I think they sought legal justification for those interrogation techniques they knew wouldn't arguably "cross the line". As we have been able to observe, probably anything more extreme occurred when such terrorist suspects were sent via "rendition" to other countries. If a terrorist gave away useful intelligence when being interrogated harshly (what many call torture) by Egyptian, Saudi, or Pakistani intelligence, I doubt we refuse any such information from them.

You see, this is why most Americans should be completely oblivious to intelligence activities - because they can't handle the reality of what it takes to keep our country safe. The guilt and moral hand-wringing being done by so many Americans and the current President is basically destroying the effectiveness of intel operations (in my opinion). The information that came out in the newspapers about black sites and rendition should have never been leaked, same as that information about the wiretapping program. It's ironic, but this is why it's so difficult to have a functional and effective intelligence apparatus in a democratic country. I am quite sure intelligence services in Egypt, Pakistan, Jordan, and Pakistan, find it incredible what is going on now. They are probably laughing their pants off.