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Another conservative criticism of Herman Cain’s 9-9-9 plan
Freedom Works Blog and New York Times via United Liberty Blog ^ | October 7, 2011

Posted on 10/08/2011 5:51:10 PM PDT by SeekAndFind

Earlier this week, I noted some of the criticism of Herman Cain’s 9-9-9 plan from conservative circles, Kevin Williamson of the National Review chalks it up as “wishful thinking that borders on fantasy,” while Dan Mitchell of the Cato Institute doesn’t like that it keeps the income tax in the tax code.

Dean Clancy, vice president of FreedomWorks — a leading tea party organization, sees good in the proposal; but notes that there are some glaring problems that could lay the precendent for bad tax policy in the future:

The first problem is that it doesn’t get rid of the income tax. In fact, it adds a new tax — a national sales tax — on top of the income tax. Cain clearly intends that eventually the income tax will be eliminated. But what’s to guarantee that outcome? And if we want to get rid of the income tax — and we should — why not do it right from the start? Is it possible that he realizes that if he did it all in one step, folks might not be as keen on the plan (say, because his national sales tax would have to be closer to 25% than 9%)?
[,,,]
The second problem with Cain’s plan is more serious. The plan puts in place the infrastructure for a VAT — a Value Added Tax. That’s bad. Very bad.

A VAT is a form of national sales tax that is collected at every stage of the process from the initial gathering of raw materials to the final sale to the end consumer. It is the most insidious of all taxes, because it is built into the price of everything and consumers can’t see how much of the price is due to the tax. So when prices rise due to a tax hike, consumers assume it’s just prices rising due to market forces. Politicians love this about a VAT. They can take more money out of our wallets than with other, more transparent forms of taxation. Taxpayers should hate it for the very same reason.

European countries have much higher overall tax takes than does the United States. Why? Because the Europeans all have VATs, and we do not. Total receipts of the US Government since World War II have averaged about 18 percent of GDP and have never exceeded 20.9 percent (the peak, in 1944). By comparison, the “Big Six” European countries’ total receipts since the early 1970s when VATs became ubiquitous have not been less than 30 percent of GDP and today average a little over 40 percent! Twice as high as in the US.

Well, you say, Cain’s national sales tax isn’t a VAT. Okay, that’s true. But guess what? Europe’s first VATs all started out life as national sales taxes. Sales taxes are relatively easy to evade. VATs are much harder to evade. So sales taxes have a habit of evolving into VATs. That’s what happened in Europe. And it’s what will happen here, if we adopt Cain’s sales tax.

But Cain isn’t running on serious policy proposals. The guy knows how to market and pitch an idea; after all, the 9-9-9 plan is easy to remember and the one-liners that he is tossing out are catchy. This may be good for selling pizzas, but not for tax policy. And the lack of seriousness is best exemplified by his campaign, which has no campaign stops in early primary states this month:

[A]ccording to his public campaign calendar of events, where 19 of the 31 days of October are blank, there will not be much glad-handing in the immediate future. That is just fine with Mr. Cain, a former business executive who has recently surged to the top tier of candidates in early polls. The latest Quinnipiac University poll, released Wednesday, found Mitt Romney and Mr. Cain essentially tied within the poll’s margin of sampling error.

“I’m trying to run this campaign like a start-up business, which means lean and mean,” Mr. Cain said in an interview on Tuesday, wearing his signature black cowboy hat. “There’s a new sheriff in town.”
[…]
But it is not clear that Mr. Cain, 65, has any particular plan to seize this moment, beyond using the attention to sell books. Like the other candidates vying to become credible alternatives to Mr. Romney and Mr. Perry, Mr. Cain is operating on a shoestring. He raised $2 million last spring. More money is coming in, he said, and he has 40 staff members, mostly in Southern states. Still, an adviser to the campaign said the campaign had only four people working in Iowa, and there is no plan to change strategy.

Many Republicans doubt this will be enough to launch Mr. Cain in the crucial early states, especially if he decides to avoid retail politics.

“No candidate can afford to spend two or three weeks not being in New Hampshire this year,” said Steve Duprey, a Republican National Committee member from the state. “He has not made as much progress organizing in New Hampshire as he could have, but there’s time.”

Cain defends this by saying he’s been to Iowa nearly 30 times since the beginning of the year. That’s fine, but organization is key and at least four other campaigns (Bachmann, Paul, Perry, and Romney) are investing time and/or money there. Not to mention that there are four other primaries/caucuses in January that Cain’s campaign needs to drop resources into.

With Cain you’ve got a master of the soundbyte that has the populist appeal to get his party’s base excited, yet his inexperience and lack of substance are real concerns. Wait, that reminds me of someone…Herman Cain is the Republican Barack Obama.



TOPICS: Parties
KEYWORDS: 999; hermancain; neinneinnein; taxplan
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21 posted on 10/08/2011 6:10:56 PM PDT by onyx (You're here on FR so, support it! Compiling New Sarah Palin Ping List! Tell me if you want on it!)
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To: Donnafrflorida

I’d like to beat Obama with a Cain.
Like the ‘blues’?
Try this out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kQw7MyPrwJA


22 posted on 10/08/2011 6:11:49 PM PDT by Donnafrflorida (Thru HIM all things are possible.)
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To: conservativebuckeye

That’s ridiculous.

Perry has a solid record as a conservative governor in the second largest state and the state with the biggest border problems.

He’s worked hard to handle those problems, totally without any help from the feds.

If you people weren’t so anxious to trash Perry, you could have an excellent candidate to oppose Romney.

With Cain, you have an iffy tax plan, no record and a dangerous tendency to support Romney.


23 posted on 10/08/2011 6:12:40 PM PDT by altura (Perry 2012)
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To: SeekAndFind
Like the 999 plan or not, does anybody really think that it will be passed without going through committee and subject to compromises? Things that bother you now, may not even part of the final plan that hits President Cain's desk for signing into law. That's if it got that far.

But at lease Cain has a plan, instead of offering the usual focus group tested sound bites.

24 posted on 10/08/2011 6:14:31 PM PDT by NavyCanDo
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To: RobertClark

Have you seen this thread? I was wondering if the 9 9 9 plan works in combination with the Chilean plan that Cain talks about.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2789970/posts?page=12


25 posted on 10/08/2011 6:16:00 PM PDT by Netizen (Path to citizenship = Scamnesty. If you give it away, more will come. Who's pilfering your wallet?)
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To: McGavin999

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2789970/posts?page=12


26 posted on 10/08/2011 6:17:39 PM PDT by Netizen (Path to citizenship = Scamnesty. If you give it away, more will come. Who's pilfering your wallet?)
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To: muawiyah

Did I mention that Cain is a stage 4 cancer survivor?

How did that shit work out with Fred Thompson’s non hodgkins lymphoma?
A mild malady compared to Stage 4 cancer.

May I add that Herman Cain is no Fred Thompson on Constitutional matters?

As I said, I admire Hermans “Fire in the Belly”

But I have reservations on his health and I think his 999 plan stinks.


27 posted on 10/08/2011 6:17:50 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: EGPWS

How in the heck do you come up with calling any part of his plan a VAT?

Cain’s 999 plan is a proposal to eliminate all taxes except for:
Reducing the federal personal income tax from five rates (10/15/25/33/35) to a single 9% rate.
Reducing the federal corporate income tax rate from 35% to 9%.
Instituting a national sales tax of 9%.

According to Cain, his 999 plan is revenue-neutral – i.e., it will generate the same revenue as the current system, but in a simpler, fairer way that will stimulate the economy.

If you go to Cain’s website, however, you will learn that the 999 plan is merely Phase Two of Cain’s three-phrase program. Phase One is called the Immediate Boost phase, and it consists of establishing a flat tax of 25% on personal and corporate income, while eliminating the Social Security and Capital Gains taxes. Phase Three is titled the Fair Tax, and it consists of a 23% national sales that that would replace all other federal taxation on persons and corporations.


28 posted on 10/08/2011 6:18:19 PM PDT by RobertClark (It's better to look goofy with a rifle, than civilized with an exit wound.)
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To: NavyCanDo

Herman himself says the entire matter is contingent on the “Stupor Committee”


29 posted on 10/08/2011 6:19:55 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: Netizen
Have you seen this thread? I was wondering if the 9 9 9 plan works in combination with the Chilean plan that Cain talks about.

It works well with the opt in retirement system similar to Chile's. That system is, for the most part, self-sufficient and not in need of perpetual influxes of cash from general revenues. 95% of the citizens opt-in to that plan, that is impressive and works well. It would work amazingly here.

The tax plan assumes that the retirement system would be restructured to a largely self-sufficient system.

30 posted on 10/08/2011 6:23:22 PM PDT by RobertClark (It's better to look goofy with a rifle, than civilized with an exit wound.)
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To: SeekAndFind

It might not be perfect, but Cain is the ONLY candidate emoting an economic plan.


31 posted on 10/08/2011 6:24:23 PM PDT by gura (If Allah is so great, why does he need fat sexually confused fanboys to do his dirty work? -iowahawk)
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To: SeekAndFind
Another Ignorant conservative criticism of Herman Cain’s 9-9-9 plan

There, I fixed the title (I forgot to in my first post).

32 posted on 10/08/2011 6:25:10 PM PDT by RobertClark (It's better to look goofy with a rifle, than civilized with an exit wound.)
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To: Netizen

So what would we sell to fund it? Yellowstone Park? Grand Canyon?


33 posted on 10/08/2011 6:25:23 PM PDT by McGavin999 (Please don't be a Freeploader, help to keep the lights on.)
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To: SeekAndFind

These armchair quaterbacks scream foul if a candidate doesn’t have a plan or act like the candidate would push through the plan first day in office if they do have one.

I have to give the critics credit though. They’ve managed to setup our guys any way they turned. Damned if they do, damned if they don’t.


34 posted on 10/08/2011 6:28:18 PM PDT by Kenny
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To: RobertClark
The tax plan assumes that the retirement system would be restructured to a largely self-sufficient system.

Thank you, that answers my question perfectly. I think Cain is in the right track. (Cain Train pun unintended)

35 posted on 10/08/2011 6:28:39 PM PDT by Netizen (Path to citizenship = Scamnesty. If you give it away, more will come. Who's pilfering your wallet?)
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To: gura

This is the plan....

http://www.hermancain.com/999plan

It is airy and ripe for pitfalls.
Read it, the layout is like a 7th grader wrote it.

Phase 1, Phase 2, Phase 1 enhanced.


36 posted on 10/08/2011 6:29:10 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: SeekAndFind

Cain has the right idea, it just needs some tweaking. Ditch the sales tax part and go with an across the board flat tax. You pay X% amount of income or capital gains, period. No deductions, no forms, no using the tax code as a weapon. Everybody from the part-time employee to the CEO of the company pays the same amount, period. Oh, this hinges on repealing the amendment to the Constitution that allows Congress to levy the income tax.

One fixed amount of tax, combined with reducing the Federal government to the size it was meant to be by our founding fathers, would eliminate uncertainty and promote stabilty in our financial system.


37 posted on 10/08/2011 6:29:35 PM PDT by factoryrat (We are the producers, the creators. Grow it, mine it, build it.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Obummer is a totally inexperienced failure who is learning on the job.

So our plan is to replace him with our own even less experienced on the job trainee.

Then we’ll run on a platform of “vote for me and I’ll raise taxes on the 50% of you who don’t currently pay any taxes.”
That should totally energize their base and get them to stay home. /s

Yeeeeaaahhh - Deaniacs are us.


38 posted on 10/08/2011 6:29:57 PM PDT by KingKongCobra
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To: RobertClark
From the above article:

The first problem is that it doesn’t get rid of the income tax. In fact, it adds a new tax — a national sales tax — on top of the income tax. Cain clearly intends that eventually the income tax will be eliminated. But what’s to guarantee that outcome?

Love it all you want, but what guarantees that the income tax will be eliminated? or even lowered?

39 posted on 10/08/2011 6:30:05 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True Supporters of our Troops PRAY for their VICTORY!)
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To: McGavin999
So what would we sell to fund it? Yellowstone Park? Grand Canyon?

To ask such an asinine question, tells me that you didn't even look at it.

40 posted on 10/08/2011 6:31:38 PM PDT by Netizen (Path to citizenship = Scamnesty. If you give it away, more will come. Who's pilfering your wallet?)
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