Orthodox Jews Sue To Keep Brain Dead Son On Life Support-DC hospital suing to cease life support

The Bulletin ^ | 11-7-08 | Erin Maguire

[Figment]

“for Terry, who was on minimal support compared to this child, there was medical dissent about her prognosis and it was about quality of life, not quantity”

For Terry it was about inhumanely starving/dehydrating someone to death.I went through the tough decision to remove mechanical devices from a loved one with very little hope of even surviving in a vegetative state earlier this year. It’s not easy, and I pray for this family.

[wagglebee]

Pinged from Terri Dailies

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[baa39]

If “brain dead” is the sole criterion we use to determine whether a life is worth sustaining, then based on the recent election, half the American electorate should be offered the opportunity of assisted suicide.

[Former Fetus]

I do not understand. If total brain death = cessation of HB and breathing, why is his heart still beating? The IV medication. The brain stem controls the heart beat, so if the heart is beating on its own this is not a case of total brain death.

[Jim Noble]

I cared for a brain-dead Yeshiva boy many years ago (1977). He was maintained on a ventilator until everything else quit.

I was quite surprised at the reaction of his family and his classmates to the fact of his death. It was as if he had just been run over in the street by a car, not as if he'd been wasting away for months on a respirator in a dark hospital room.

[metmom]

I do not understand. If total brain death = cessation of HB and breathing, why is his heart still beating?

If this is the case I'm thinking of, I recall hearing that he's on medication to keep his heart beating.

If that's the case, along with the cessation of any brain activity at all, it seems to me that they are merely keeping a dead body from decaying.

There has to be some point at which this boy is declared dead.

[Dinsdale]

The brain stem controls the heart beat

Not exactly. Absent signals from the brain the heart will continue to beat. It's been twenty years sense I took biology and the TLA for the built in backup heart bear circuit escapes me. It's very much like a neural 555 IC timer.

Heart transplant patients don't have any CNS control of their heart beats. They run on the backup circuit (which means they can't exert themselves and have their heartbeat increase).

Breathing is controlled exclusively by the brain stem.

[SJackson]

If “brain dead” is the sole criterion we use to determine whether a life is worth sustaining, then based on the recent election, half the American electorate should be offered the opportunity of assisted suicide.

:>)

[SJackson]

There has to be some point at which this boy is declared dead.

That's the question that's presented so clearly in this case. For an Orthodox Jew, that's cessation of breathing and heartbeat. Removal of life support and medication generally not permissible either, once started.

I recognize you, and I’m sure a vast majority of Americans and Freepers would disagree with that definition. But it’s the parents beliefs, one supported by millennia of tradition, they’re able to pay for his care, and it’s not denying another patient care, though that wouldn’t be an issue either.

So what’s happening is that the state is substituting their values for that of the patients family. And though it wouldn’t matter to me, I see no discernable state interests here. I would suggest that’s a very slippery slope.

[metmom]

For an Orthodox Jew, that's cessation of breathing and heartbeat. Removal of life support and medication generally not permissible either, once started.

That's where I see the irony. If cessation of breathing and heartbeat are the criteria for when life ends, and it's God's call as to when that should be, then WHY did they ever decide to put him on the machines to begin with?

Wouldn't that be considered subverting God's will? Taking the decision out of His hands?

It so seems to defy the concept of letting God take control. Now THEY'RE in control, not God. Just how many other body functions need to shut down before they admit that he's dead. They can perform dialysis if his kidneys quit.

With all those machines, how can they determine what's truly functioning? Does every single organ have to stop?

When my mom was dying from cancer, she told them no heroic measures and signed a do not resuscitate order. They had her on oxygen only and an IV for fluid. They kept her comfortable and clean. She didn't last long because the cancer was so aggressive, but we (and she) couldn't see prolonging it. We just decided to let it take it's course.

Of course, it wasn't easy, but there was no *pull the plug* decision to make either.

[SJackson]

The Orthodox criteria is cessation of breathing and heartbeat.

I just don’t know about the specifics of this case, from the articles I read I suspect the treatment was post operative, the family may or may not have had input.

In general there is no obligation to undertake heroic measures, or to resuscitate. Pain medication can be administered in doses which would accelerate a patients death, if done for the relief of pain. But once begun, measures of sustenance can’t be withdrawn.. As I noted earlier, there might be some disagreement about respirators as opposed to feeding and iv, but I’m already beyond my level of specific knowledge, and the parents decision here is a mainstream one.