Part of 1996 Anti-Terror Law Overturned (9th Circuit: Surprise, Surprise, Surprise!)

foxnews.com ^ | 12/04/03 | AP

[johnae]

SAN FRANCISCO

[johnae]

Instead on going on a rant and rave about how stupid this is, I'd prefer to ask this question:

HOW DOES DRU GET TOP BILLING OVER THIS?????

I feel better now.

[dighton]

Three-judge panel of the wacky 9th Circuit. Unlikely to stand.

[siwrcw03]

OK..lemme see if I have this correct...it's OKAY to support the enemy of our country by providing them with monetary support and even people to fight against our OWN soldiers because....it's their RIGHT to under the FREEDOM of EXPRESSION???

Did understand that correctly??

Yeah, I can't wait until California falls into the Pacific Ocean and we can start over with Nevada. I swear, the people of California are on a different astral plane than the rest of us.

oIw
Rick

[thoughtomator]

It was posted yesterday. Before you and everyone else here leap to conclusions, read the actual opinion.

Humanitarian Law Project v. Ashcroft
http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov

I would guess that less than 1 in 100 people here with an opinion are capable of stating in layman's terms what the case and the decision are about.

The reaction to this case on FR has been a big disappointment to me. Maybe I'm just spoiled, but a couple years back one could count on people reading the opinion, or at least a review from a respectable person with experience in the field, before lighting the torches.

9th Cir. does a LOT of really assinine things, but this opinion ain't one of them.

[thoughtomator]

And the PKK and LTTE are enemies of the US how exactly? Please elaborate.

[Excuse_My_Bellicosity]

What does "PKK" and "LTE" mean?

[thoughtomator]

PKK = People's something or other of Kurdistan
LTTE = Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam

[Excuse_My_Bellicosity]

That's not it, try this: Humanitarian Law Project v. Ashcroft/Powell

[Excuse_My_Bellicosity]

9th Cir. does a LOT of really assinine things, but this opinion ain't one of them.

So, are you saying that Fox News is flat-out lying?

[thoughtomator]

same document... link I gave is just the general 9th Cir. site... can go to opinions, it's like the 2nd or 3rd down from the top... or can just go to your better link ;)

[thoughtomator]

Didn't watch Fox News on it, so I can't say.

[thoughtomator]

Oh... you mean this article. Yes, it is wrong. The author clearly did not read the opinion. Most likely they got it interpreted by someone who said "9th Circuit? Must be an awful opinion" (understandable, but in this case erroneous reaction).

[Angelus Errare]

The same question could be posed as to whether or not Hamas or Islamic Jihad or the al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades are enemies of the US. All of them threaten our allies and have a stated willingness to target the US.

The PKK is a Marxist organization that has conducted multiple suicide bombings against a key US ally in the Middle East. No matter what you think about Turkish-Kurdish relations, nothing justifies the kind of Khmer Rouge/Viet Cong-esque tactics that the PKK has engaged in.

The LTTE has likewise carried out more suicide bombings than any other group on the planet and has carried out attacks against both the Indian and Sri Lankan governments, both of which are US allies.

Same goes for that damned Japanese cult, the Iranian Marxists in the MEK who shilled for Saddam, ect.

[timydnuc]

Congress needs to break up the 9th Circus right GD now! The plan has been in the works for years but the RATS always got in the way. Well, we have the majority now, let's get it done.

[thoughtomator]

The US is currently working with elements of the PKK in Iraq.

Sri Lanka is not a US ally, sorry. Sri Lanka also engages in routine torture of its citizens, and now that Hussein is gone from Iraq, Sri Lanka claims the throne as the #1 country in the world for unexplained disappearances. US allies don't flood the US with asylum seekers.

At some point the honest person has to admit this is not Al-Qaida black-and-white.

[a_Turk]

Either this decision is overturned or the US Turkish alliance is toast. Curious to see which way the US really does swing..

[Angelus Errare]

The US has negotiations with Fatah too, of which the al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades is an arm of. Doesn't make the Brigades any less of a terrorist organization. More to the point, the last I heard the US is working with the KDP and the PUK, not the PKK, in northern Iraq.

As far as Sri Lanka goes, they are our "ally" in the same sense that Uzbekistan or Algeria are. Call it the lesser of two evils, if you like. That doesn't justify what the Tigers do or make them any less of a terrorist organization, anymore than the fact that the Colombian military has supported death squads makes allowing someone to support FARC or the ELN morally defensible.

Like I said, if you want to make excuses for these organizations you aren't going to leave yourself much room to explain why exactly it should be okay to support them and not for American Muslims to shill out cash for Hamas and Islamic Jihad.

[Angelus Errare]

This is the 9th Circus, the same folks who found "Under God" unconstitutional, so factor that into your assessment of the situation.

To be fair though, I can imagine what the view from Turkey looks like right about now. I'm just as POed over this as you guys are, incidentally. Anybody claiming the PKK isn't the Kurdish version of the Khmer Rouge or the Viet Cong is deluding themselves.

[Excuse_My_Bellicosity]

The court mainly has a problem with the context and definition of "material support", "personnel provided" (to terrorist organizations), and "training".

This ruling is great news for the legions of muslim organizations in America that, to this day, run charity scams to funnel money to al-Qaeda and other terrorist organizations, foreign and domestic. Now, all they have to do is say, "I had no idea that Hamas and al-Qaeda were using my money to kill people. I thought they were using it to plant flowers and feed little kids." As long as they plead ignorance and don't keep any written records, they're free and clear to continue supporting terrorism.

[thoughtomator]

The US Turkey alliance was toast the day Turkey refused to allow passage for US troops into Iraq. Allies allow their allies to use their territory to move troops. Turkey and the US are allies by virtue of the NATO treaty, yet Turkey rebuffed the first invocation of Article V. A treaty that no one follows is simply worthless paper; it's certainly not worthy of an alliance.

We pretty much learned that day that when the chips are down, Turkey is no more reliable than France.

Turkey has to face its genocidal history squarely before it can claim the moral high ground. WWI was not that long ago, historically speaking. Likewise Sri Lanka has to face up to its own genocidal campaign against the Tamils to do likewise.

I am a Turkophile, but I am not under the illusion that to be Turk is to be perfect. Turkey cannot legitimately ask our participation in the attempt to eliminate a minority culture. Stateless peoples do have the right to life as well.