A Troubling Influence - An Islamic Fifth Column penetrates the White House

FrontPageMagazine ^ | 12/09/03 | Frank J Gaffney Jr.

[Bob J]

We cannot win the war on terrorism without the help of the moderate Muslim community. I applaud Norquist's efforts attempts to bring what he thought to be moderate elements into a dialogue with Bush. The fact that a few of them have not turned out to be what people thought they were is unfortunate, but then again, no one knew the extent to which the Saudi's had placed operatives in US Muslim organizations.

There appears to have been no security losses over these incidents. As Nick Danger pointed out, they instead directed a spotlight on them and the government has been able to ferret out and prosecute them. Kicking Norquist to the curb over it is unfair and unproductive.

There are those who believe that no Muslim can be trusted and that our only solution is to kill them all and let God sort them out. This viewpoint is shortsighted and will only result in failure, not to mention the acrid genocidal aroma. I've seen this same attitude expressed on other other threads that are race based, immigration for instance.

Allowing these attitudes to fester will result in the marginalization of Free Republic and a failure in achieving it's goals.

[hchutch]

You also make excellent points on this regard.

However, I fear that the ideological purists are going to try to find a way to spoil it for everyone else.

[Valentine_W]

"I warned members of ATR staff of the Islamist links in July 2001. I was told that the Muslim groups were no threat. Instead of admitting a mistake Norquist rather grandstands and hide behind Political correctness, good Muslims, and the President. He despoils these."

You warned members of ATR? A lot of prominent conservative groups are concerned about this right now, but are just waiting and watching to see what comes of this situation. Honestly, the evidence seems circumstantial at best. But that doesn't necessarily mean that Norquist isn't guilty, just that we should wait and see what happens, rather than accusing him outright of being a traitor.

[Valentine_W]

"We cannot win the war on terrorism without the help of the moderate Muslim community. I applaud Norquist's efforts attempts to bring what he thought to be moderate elements into a dialogue with Bush. The fact that a few of them have not turned out to be what people thought they were is unfortunate, but then again, no one knew the extent to which the Saudi's had placed operatives in US Muslim organizations."

I agree with you--in order to win the War on Terror we do need to keep good contact with the few moderate Islamic governments that we do have good relations with. However, I typically think of this as being the role of the State Department or the Executive. I wish we had a T.E. Lawrence around right now, but Norquist clearly isn't it.

[Vigilantcitizen]

For later.

[meema]

While I do not agree with Frank on all subjects, with regard to Grover, (and his companions-including David Keene)I believe he is absolutely right. (David has gone off-track in some regards as well, but not to the extent that Grover has.)
It gives me the creeps to think of our President in the same room with these 'friends of Grover's' !!!
I do not know who to blame for President Bush's errors in judgement, other than the MAN himself, at this point.
It makes me sick.

[meema]

I haven't read the whole thread, just up to post #50, but I have noticed during the past many, many months, that Grover seemingly has no coherent response as of yet, nor do I expect him to do so at this late date. He has convicted himself by his cries of racism etc. This association with the Islamists has been lucrative, apparently, and does not even cost him his access to the WH.

[Byron_the_Aussie]

...Benedict Arnold was a good guy too...

Wow. You're deep.

I can see you've carefully examined the issues, before condemning Norquist.

[Byron_the_Aussie]

...I say good riddance to Norquist. I hope he's in the path of the next terrorist attacks in the United States...

You've got no idea what you're talking about, mate. Your anonymous macho blather on an Internet site, versus Norquist's sterling record over decades of conservative accomplishment? Some of you wankers need to realise your posts add testimony to your own inadequacies.

[ml/nj]

Wow. You're deep.

Is that the best you can do?

What is it about Norquist that is so special to you guys that you cannot believe he would sell out to our enemies?

I once believed George Bush I wouldn't raise taxes. I'm older and wiser now.

ML/NJ

[Byron_the_Aussie]

...just as the Catholic Churches fear of bad press was a reason for the failure to deal with the abuse problems, so to your KNEE-JERK defense of Norquist blinds you to the problem. Look what happened to the Catholic Church in this country. "Catholic Priest" has become a synonymm for pedophile....

Yes, and why is that? You're the one that's pushing the liberal technique which is parallel to the Norquist case- that a few pedophiles in the church, somehow undoes their exemplary record of goodness. You tell me what this sickness is, in the American conservative fraternity, whereby people like yourself will rush to condemn one of our own, and thereby do the liberals' work for them. Even trying to discount the overwheening arrogance and self-satisfaction that shines from your posts, do you *really* think that someone like Norquist would be enabling a Muslim 'fifth column' in your country? Trying to put one over the President, the FBI? Wake up to yourself, mate. There's a billion Muslims out there, and we are going to have to get along with them when this current madness from a tiny percentage settles down.

[meema]

It would much more enlightening to read BobJ's comments if he would get around to reading the article. I'm surprised that anyone here would not have SOME BASIC understanding of what is the problem with Grover's bahavior in recent years.

[Byron_the_Aussie]

..what is it about Norquist that is so special to you guys that you cannot believe he would sell out to our enemies?...

I've already given you one example- the way he blindsided the State Department, directly brought the Chissano regime to President Reagan's attention, and set the wheels in motion for UNITA's funding. Are you going to give him any credit for that? Just a simple yes or no- are you prepared to give Mr Norquist credit for his achievements, or are you too far gone even for that?

[Byron_the_Aussie]

..I once believed George Bush I wouldn't raise taxes. I'm older and wiser now....

BTW, let's not even *mention* the Bushes in the same breath as Reagan/Norquist:

Without surveillance equipment from America and its ally, Israel, the Angolan army could probably not have tracked down and killed Mr Savimbi. … "The Americans ditched Mr Savimbi, and started coddling Mr dos Santos, chiefly because huge deposits of oil had been found off the Angolan coast. In the past ten years or so, America has put little or no pressure on the dos Santos regime to become less crooked or despotic. "George Bush met Mr Dos Santos this week and urged him to end the war. But he stopped short of demanding that he should declare a unilateral ceasefire, and Mr dos Santos said that the onus was on UNITA to make the first concessions." Source: The Economist, 3/2/02, pp. 14-15

[Taxman]

This whole affair is sort of reminiscent of the infiltration of the US government by the Communist forces of evil before, during and after WW II, is it not?

HST, if there is a "moderate Muslim community," who are they, where are they and what are they doing to help us preserve the United States of America?

Furthermore, has Grover denounced the "moderate Muslims" who have been shown to not be quite so moderate?

Has he returned to these "moderate Muslims" all of the money they paid him to gain influence in the Bush administration?

Enquiring minds want to know.

[rmlew]

I wrote:
"He refuses to judge minorities by objective standards."
EverFree responded
Please expand on this fascinating concept of judging minorities by objective standards.
Minorities often act against the long term interest of society and themselves because of short-term decisions.
For instance calling for the freedom of Jonathan Pollard will clear up the problem of his disproportionate sentence. However, it undermines America by lessening the punishment of traitors. It hurt Jews in America by making us look disloyal. It hurts Israel by wasting political capital on a traitor rather than on the actual threats to Israel.

"He opposes the nation-state"
Grover is not anarchist. To imply otherwise is paranoia and hysteria.
There is a difference between opposing the nation-state and opposing government. Tranzis support global government, Free-trade, and open immigration. However then support one-world governance through a modified UN. Norquist is no tranzi, but he does not care for the sovereignty of the US because he is a libertarian, not a traditionalist.

"He is ignorant of the charges because he refuses to see them."
Circular logic, begging the question; next.
Not at all; the human ability of self-deception is astounding. Take a look at the spouses of criminals.

Ratner writes that I want to "bring Islamic fundamentalists into the Republican Party without regard to how they feel about terrorism or Americans, let alone Republicans." This is not true. And it is silly. It is, however, a sad lie that a handful of bigots have tried to spread to attack President Bush and others.
A yes "bigots"!
Hiding behind the charge of racism is liberal trait.

"Paleos should disdain the open-border WTO-supporting PC relativistic Norquist. "
America will never abandon free minds and free markets.
The average Paleoconservative has as much disdain for Reason Magazine as they do for the Weekly Standard.
Paleos support tariffs.
You seem rather ignorant of Paleoconservatism. May I suggest that you look up the "Chronicle" symposium on the history and ideological underpinnings of paleoconservatism?

You overuse the Disagreement Is Blindness metaphor. You misspell it on the third use because your hands are as tired of typing it as we are of reading it.
I get tired at 3AM.

"1. Is that Michael or William Lind?"
The particular author has no bearing on the fact of the statement.
1. I do not agree wit the asserted veracity of the statement.
2. Whether the author was a liberal former Neocon or a Paleoconservative does matter.
Michael Lind is a homosexual who makes a living slandering conservatives. William Lind simply dislikes neocons.

Read harder: Lind (objectively) says 1970s. Not 1970 (your strawman).
So we have an unsubstantiated claim of a conspiracy that occured sometime in a decade.
That borders on LaRouches veracity.

[Bob J]

I've read the article. I've been reading the same pap for about a year now. Nothing new, just a rehash of old stuff.

[Bob J]

This whole affair is sort of reminiscent of the infiltration of the US government by the Communist forces of evil before, during and after WW II, is it not?

No, is it not. None of the "Mulsim forces" have penetrated the government in any way.

HST, if there is a "moderate Muslim community," who are they, where are they and what are they doing to help us preserve the United States of America?

The moderate Muslims you don't see have quietly been working with the government to eradicate the Islamists inside our borders. You don't see them because if it were publically known they were working with us there would be a fatwah on them and their families in about 2 minutes. Don't you think it is strange there have been no significant terrorist attacks on our soil since 911?

Furthermore, has Grover denounced the "moderate Muslims" who have been shown to not be quite so moderate?

Yes. As recently as last night on Hugh Hewitt. The bomb throwers won't give him credit becuase they are more interested in grandstanding on FR than finding the truth.

Anyway, don't worry. Norquist will be making public statements soon and we will have him on RadioFR to make his case and take questions from FReepers.

Has he returned to these "moderate Muslims" all of the money they paid him to gain influence in the Bush administration?

If anything the mod muzzies should ask for their money back since the bad ones are now behind bars.

Enquiring minds want to know.

We aim to please.

[rmlew]

You warned members of ATR?
I warned a friend of mine who works on the staff.

A lot of prominent conservative groups are concerned about this right now, but are just waiting and watching to see what comes of this situation.
Their inaction is allowing the damage to spread.

Honestly, the evidence seems circumstantial at best. But that doesn't necessarily mean that Norquist isn't guilty, just that we should wait and see what happens, rather than accusing him outright of being a traitor.
Norquist is a fool or a traitor.
The appearence of impropriaty regarding funding should have been enough for him to clean house. Instead Norquist hides behind PC platitudes and race-baiting.
What logical reason is there for Norquist not to denounce the AADC CAIR and HLF?

[rmlew]

Yes, and why is that? You're the one that's pushing the liberal technique which is parallel to the Norquist case- that a few pedophiles in the church, somehow undoes their exemplary record of goodness.
I'm am doing no such thing.
Failure to remove a cancer allows it to spread.
Failure to rebuke or punish a member of your coalition who has committed a grave offence casts doubt on everyone, and gives ammunition to enemies.
You know this. Calling me an enemy is purile.

You tell me what this sickness is, in the American conservative fraternity, whereby people like yourself will rush to condemn one of our own, and thereby do the liberals' work for them.
Easy. We know that the left will use a single transgressor to smear us all. Thus we have both a moral and tactical reason to expunge those who hurt us.

Even trying to discount the overwheening arrogance and self-satisfaction that shines from your posts, do you *really* think that someone like Norquist would be enabling a Muslim 'fifth column' in your country?
Pride, self-deception, and failure to account for the future are universal human failings.
Character is shown in how one responds to mistakes. Norquist responded by using PC spin to smear his critics rather than look at his new friends.

Trying to put one over the President, the FBI? Wake up to yourself, mate. There's a billion Muslims out there, and we are going to have to get along with them when this current madness from a tiny percentage settles down.
The road to hell is paved by good intentions.
The reality is that by failing to differentiate between Muslims and Islamists, we are ensuring that Islamism spreads both in this country and around the world.
The fear is self-fulfilling as it radicalizes the Muslims so that reasonable protections are seen as illegitimate attacks.