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To: Byron_the_Aussie
I agree with what you state. Norquist's considerable conservative credentials precludes ad hominem attacks but sensible questions are justified and Norquist should address each of them.

The Saudis have been working for some time to penetrate and influence American politics and it is no suprise they have used American Muslim groups to further that aim. Few were aware of the extent of their penetration prior to 911 and to hold Norquist singularly responsible smacks of a witch hunt. At worst, I believe Norquist may be guilty of bad judgement (which you would have to extend to the entire Bush administration since they approved of and conducted the contacts), but to call him a traitor as some are doing, is unfair and ignores his unimpeachable record of successfully advancing conservative causes for decades. Efforts almost all of which would recieve considerable support for here on FR.

I would add that Norquists criticism of portions of the Patriot Act (and be extension the Muslim groups) sound exactly like the positions held by many FReepers on this board. To use that as a basis for condemnation is inconsistent.

22 posted on 12/09/2003 6:03:34 AM PST by Bob J (www.freerepublic.net www.radiofreerepublic.com...check them out!)
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To: Bob J
"...to call him a traitor as some are doing, is unfair and ignores his unimpeachable record of successfully advancing conservative causes for decades."

His conservative political record is all well and good, but his activities as of late serve only to directly undermine the national security of this country. Norquist isn't doing this for his love of mankind... to label innumerable repetitions of the same type of behavior "bad judgment" may hold true for a ten year old, but it is irresponsible here. His position as a conservative should make him doubly aware of the damage of his actions.

This isn't a witch hunt.
24 posted on 12/09/2003 6:29:39 AM PST by snowrip ("Going to war without the French is like going hunting without your lawnmower.")
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To: Bob J; All
Norquist knew of the "alleged" ties between CAIR AMJ AADC HLF... and Islamist terrorist groups. He didn't care. He believed that the Wahabbis could work with him to promote Free-markets. (Remember that Grover is not a cultural conservative but a libertarian.)
After 9-11, Norquist tried to sanitize these groups. He is too embedded to break with them without being hurt.
He rather damage his cause in the long term and this country, than suffer the personal consequences of ignoring the Islamist threat.
84 posted on 12/09/2003 10:36:31 AM PST by rmlew (Peaceniks and isolationists are objectively pro-Terrorist)
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To: Bob J; Chapita; Doc On The Bay; NYC GOP Chick
..Norquist's considerable conservative credentials precludes ad hominem attacks but sensible questions are justified and Norquist should address each of them....

Yep. Until then, let's hold judgement.

Bob, a classic Norquist story, from Peggy Noonan's book (and thanks to Mrs Byron, for typing all this up!)

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

...now, the presentation of the youngest person there, Grover Norquist, thirtyish, Harvard-educated, a free-lance Conservative operative.

With ten minutes to brief his first president, Grover had called around to friends who had worked in the White House and asked, How do I keep his attention on a subject he may not find naturally interesting? The day of the meeting, he gave a presentation in which the president was forced to look at a picture, read a short letter or respond to a question. All this not so much so Grover would keep his attention, but so the president’s staff would notice he’d kept his attention. “I wanted them to know the president had heard my arguments and would remember them, so they’d have to take that into account when they discussed Mozambique with him.”

He captivated the president with a kind of show-and-tell on Mozambique – that the governing party is Marxist-Leninist; President Chissano is a Communist. You may have been given the impression by the State Department, which tends in its worldview to assume a black African is too dumb to be a Communist, to think that’s only for white Europeans – you may have been given the impression that the people of the Mozambique government are not serious. But they are.

But there is a strong opposition, he said, a guerrilla army with twenty-two thousand men under arms, the fastest-growing anti-Communist insurgency in the world. It is pro-democratic and pro-Western in its outlook.

“Sir, this is a picture I took of one section of a very large official government mural that is placed very prominently on the highway between the airport and Maputo, the capital. The mural is placed alongside the Plaza of Heroes, which every person who enters Mozambique must pass as he leaves the airport. As you can see, this part of the mural shows a white man with a Star of David very prominent on his military cap. He is strangling and manacling a young black man. The message is obvious: Zionism is the enemy.”

He handed the photo to the president.

“Mr. President, the government of Mozambique has picked up all the Soviet Union’s bad habits, from concentration camps to secret police to anti-Semitism. These are decisions and positions the Soviets tell them to take. By the way, I asked a high official of the government why anti-Semitic art is part of an official government poster. He said, ‘Oh, the artist did that.” Reagan was studying the eight-by-ten colour glossy.

“Mr. President, did anyone ever tell you of this mural?”
“No.”
“Well, Mr. President, you can’t miss it.”

The president asked if he could keep the photo. At that point, for the first time in the meeting, Weinberger, Carlucci and Howard Baker picked up their pencils and wrote on their White House pads.

“Mr. President, they have East Germans running the secret police, and you know and I know who East Germans are: They’re Nazis, without the charm.”

The president laughed. Howard Baker wrote on his pad, “Nazis without the charm.” He underlined it.

The president said, “Well, I fought the Communists years ago in the Screen Actors Guild, and I understand them.” He told a story of how he had to carry a gun for a year. He said there was a plan by some of the Communists in the union to throw acid in his face so he’d never be able to work in pictures again.

“Well, they were successful,” Weyrich said dryly. “You haven’t made a picture in years.”

Everyone laughed, and stood to leave. Norquist walked around the table to the president.

“Sir, when you meet with President Chissano in October, keep one thing in mind: Chissano used to be the head of security in Mozambique, and in that capacity he once had one of his lieutenants murder his own father in front of a thousand government troops to teach them what revolutionary discipline really means. Do you know how the man killed his father?”

Reagan shook his head. Norquist drew an imaginary dagger from his belt, pointed it toward the present’s abdomen and traced up and over.

The president winced and stepped back.

“So remember,” said Norquist, “when you meet with Chissano: plastic cutlery.”

184 posted on 12/09/2003 11:55:06 PM PST by Byron_the_Aussie (http://www.theinterviewwithgod.com/popup2.html)
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