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Mexican Descendants Win in Colo. Court
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| 12/10/03
Posted on 12/10/2003 4:25:33 PM PST by knak
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To: knak
.....I don't know the whole story here....
For starters, rely on James Mitchner.
Read "Centenial" and "Texas" to get the flavor of the interaction between Mexicans and Americans early on.
Mitchner is long but he did the research on complex historical events.
41
posted on
12/11/2003 11:03:31 AM PST
by
bert
(Don't Panic!)
To: knak
Do the taxes get shared too? (Oooops! My bias is showing again.)
To: Bikers4Bush
When we got it from mexico any mexican claim became mootWrong. We agreed to honor the claims.
Had Kearney not made his famous rooftop speech promising security to those inhabitants who were quiet, it is likely that he would have been in a hornet's nest greater than the handful of California lancers that stopped him. Donophan's irregulars would have found their trip down the Rio Grande almost as unpleasant as the dirty sock incident.
To: Poohbah
Aren't we also talking about centuries of continuous use here by a certain family or set of families?
The land buyer should have researched this issue out ahead of time.
Continuously used rights-of-way can have similar results in court.
And old fence lines can take precedence over surveys.
as I understand things in the 'old west' where we live!
44
posted on
12/11/2003 11:23:42 AM PST
by
Quix
(Choose this day whom U will serve: Shrillery & demonic goons or The King of Kings and Lord of Lords)
To: Quix
Much of the Southwest is under the Spanish "metes and bounds" system, rather than the American range and township system. (One guide: look for old--pre-1821--place names featuring the word "Rancho." That means it was a Spanish land grant, and was done under metes and bounds.)
Metes and bounds surveying is much looser than range and township methods.
Aren't we also talking about centuries of continuous use here by a certain family or set of families?
Exactly.
45
posted on
12/11/2003 11:30:49 AM PST
by
Poohbah
("Beware the fury of a patient man" -- John Dryden)
To: Quix
When the Americans occupied Santa Fe, one of the first things they did was drag out the old Spanish records and burn them. Centuries of intricately documented claims were lost. There were also many common law claims because farmers would follow the canals and extend them without patenting the surrounding land. Whites stole much of this developed land simply by filing deeds. The uneducated Mexicans lost thousands of claims.
Lost were claims for grazing rights as far west as the San Francisco Mountains in Arizona and deep into Texaz.
To: MARTIAL MONK; Poohbah
I acquired decades ago, a land grant deed and some associated documents to such a chunk of land. I don't recall where it was.
I think I eventually sent it to a library in California which specialized in such things. It was an interesting, kind of beautiful bit of history.
Thanks for your kind replies.
47
posted on
12/11/2003 11:51:08 AM PST
by
Quix
(Choose this day whom U will serve: Shrillery & demonic goons or The King of Kings and Lord of Lords)
To: RLK
"Aztlan and Reconquista are becoming politically imposed court imposed realities to be complied with. The claims for Spain announced by Cortez will be recognized." You might be correct. The only salvation for us northerners will be the Treaty of San Ildefonso and the wisdom of Jefferson's payment to the French.
And somewhere there are a lot of pissed Indians.
48
posted on
12/11/2003 12:06:21 PM PST
by
Vidi_Vici_Vinnny
(An armed man is a Citizen. An unarmed man is a Subject.)
To: MARTIAL MONK
To paraphras Luis Chama (in "Joe Kidd"): "There was a fire."
49
posted on
12/11/2003 12:14:48 PM PST
by
Doctor Stochastic
(Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
To: knak
Descendant: one who descends (onto).....
50
posted on
12/11/2003 12:25:51 PM PST
by
tracer
To: knak
advice to the rancher.
Burn the trees and salt the ground.
To: Quix
Somehow this thread got me thinking about an incident on Col. Donophan's march down the Rio Grande into Mexico. They had small cannon and at one point wanted to fire a salute with one. Discovering that they had no packing, one of the soldiers volunteered one of his socks. At the blast the sock wadding flew across the courtyard and wrapped around the head of an unfortunate on the other side. After more than a few choice words the poor guy allowed that he would rather be hit by grape than a sock worn continuously by a Missouri frontiersman for three months without a wash.
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