Posted on 01/14/2004 12:22:15 PM PST by JustPiper
JOE SCARBOROUGH, HOST: Tonight: Mexico looks a gift horse in the mouth.
You‘re about to enter SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY. No passport required, no border jumping allowed.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This temporary worker program will match willing foreign workers with willing American employers when no Americans can be found to fill the jobs.
SCARBOROUGH: Many think the president‘s immigration plan is not good for America, but Mexican President Vicente Fox says it‘s not good enough for Mexico. He wants more.
You know, when it comes to illegal immigration, it seems like politics trumps policy every time. It‘s time for tonight‘s “Real Deal.”
President Bush has spent the last few days catching up with Mexico‘s Vicente Fox. Mr. Bush and Mr. Fox have praised the White House‘s policy of giving American jobs to illegal immigrants in return for giving those illegal immigrants amnesty. Now, you talk about a one-sided deal. We give our jobs to illegals who get rewarded for taking those jobs from Americans with citizenship in the USA
And despite the bad deal for American taxpayers, can you believe that Mexico‘s president still wants more? President Fox dismisses a work amnesty program as—quote—“a first step.” But he really thinks America needs to open up our borders completely, so Mexicans can come in and out of America without fear of any arrests.
Now, most Americans are asking one question about the president‘s new policy. What in the world is he thinking? You know, two years after the worse attacks on America, the president wants to open the floodgates to illegal immigrants. And, at the same time, news reports are surfacing of a Mexican diplomat who is arrested for smuggling Arab illegals into the United States.
If Vicente Fox gets his way, it may not be too long until Osama bin Laden and his Army of terrorists can cross America‘s Southern border without even getting their I.D.s checked. That‘s a policy that may be good for the president‘s reelection campaign, but it‘s one that is reprehensible and irresponsible in this post-9/11 world.
And that‘s tonight‘s “Real Deal.”
Now, President Bush, of course, has introduced his new immigration bill that many people think trades amnesty for illegal immigrants for American jobs. But Mexico‘s President Fox dismissed the president‘s radical immigration policy as little more than a first step.
And with us tonight to talk about it is MSNBC‘s Pat Buchanan. And we also have Colorado‘s governor, Bill Owens, who is a supporter of the president‘s plan.
Governor, let me begin with you.
You know, President Fox is saying, this is only a first step. A lot of Americans out there who don‘t like the president‘s policy, but may trust the president, have to be asking, when does this all end? And if this is only a first step, what‘s next?
GOV. BILL OWENS ®, COLORADO: Well, Joe, first of all, that‘s what President Fox says.
But what President Bush says is, is that the present system simply isn‘t working. And short of taking four or five or six million undocumented aliens and moving them forcibly back to their country, something that this country will never do, the next best alternative is simply to regulate, to formalize, to license these people who are here, so that we know who they are and where they are.
Almost everything you said in terms of reprehensible and radical, I disagree with. This is so rational and makes so much sense compared to the present system, where we force these people underground, where we don‘t know who they are, where in fact we make it impossible for them to move back to their country, when in fact they want to.
(CROSSTALK)
OWENS: This is a system—this is a moderate, conservative system that will work very well once it‘s put in place.
SCARBOROUGH: Governor, you say it‘s conservative, but I thought conservatives...
OWENS: I do.
SCARBOROUGH: ... in ‘98 and ‘99 were talking about the rule of law when we were holding Bill Clinton accountable during impeachment. You‘re saying the system doesn‘t work. The president is saying the system doesn‘t work, which is just another word for, we‘re not enforcing our laws. If we enforce our laws, they‘ll work, right?
OWENS: Joe, what would be your alternative, to, in Florida, go out and round up hundreds of thousands of people at the point of a gun and force them out?
Being realistic, I understand—and we‘ve been friends for a long time. You‘ve been a congressman. I‘ve been a governor. But being realistic, we have a challenge. We have millions of people who we don‘t know who they are in our country. And one approach would be, forcibly evict them. And that is something that we, as a humane democracy, as a republic, will never do.
The other approach is regulate them. Let‘s find out who they are. Let‘s identify them, match them to willing employers, and set up a system where they can return to their countries, when they are ready to.
SCARBOROUGH: All right, Pat Buchanan, let me bring you in here.
Is the governor simply being realistic? We can‘t go around in Florida and Texas and California and kicking down doors and telling these people we are sending them back to Mexico, can we?
PAT BUCHANAN, NBC POLITICAL ANALYST: No. No one recommends exactly that.
But I‘ll tell you what the president is doing. The president is
giving an amnesty for massive law breaking. He is saying, in effect, Joe -
· and it‘s eight or 12 million illegal aliens in this country. We don‘t know who they are and where they are. What the president is saying is, even though I took an oath to enforce the laws of the United States, I am not going to enforce the immigration laws of this country. I am not going to defend America‘s borders. I am going to grant amnesty to eight to 12 million law breakers, because I cannot and will not enforce those laws.
And to me, what the president is doing, he is erasing the border between the United States and Mexico, Joe, for this reason. There is nothing in his program which will stop the illegals, as well as the legals, from coming in. Reagan amnestied three million. We are now going to amnesty eight to 12 million. What‘s to stop 24 million more coming in?
SCARBOROUGH: Well, Pat, actually, I wanted to read you the quote from Vicente Fox and what he said about the policy. She said—quote—“It‘s a great first step, but we‘re going for more.”
And he also said that all immigration barriers should be removed, allowing people to live and work in the country of their choosing, whether it‘s Mexico, the United States or Canada. What do you think about that policy?
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: With due respect to Vicente Fox, the man is a hypocrite and he is a phony. He wants to erase the borders between the United States and Mexico at the Rio Grande.
Will someone ask Mr. Fox if he is going to erase the border between Guatemala and Mexico, so the Central Americans can walk in and out of his country? It is our country he wants to walk in and out of. He wants Mexican legals and illegals to come in here, many of whom have a minimum wage of 60 cents and 80 cents an hour, and compete with Americans, where the minimum wage is $5.15 an hour.
What‘s going to happen, Joe, to those 2.5 million manufacturing workers who used to make $15 and $20 an hour? Are they to go and compete for five bucks an hour? Their families can‘t live on that. This is going to force down the wages of American workers. And I‘ll tell you, it will bankrupt this country the way it has bankrupted California. That is what is happening there.
Taxpayers are leaving California by the hundreds of thousands, and tax consumers coming in.
SCARBOROUGH: Governor Owens, I want to ask you to respond to what Pat said also respond to...
OWENS: Which parts?
SCARBOROUGH: There‘s quite a bit.
OWENS: How much time do I have here, Joe?
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: I‘ll throw it over to you.
But I spoke to a friend who has a landscaping business in Oregon earlier this week, when we were debating this issue. And he actually said that it‘s a lot easier to get Americans to work at minimum wage, because there are so many illegals out there, that it does in fact drive down the wages, when you have all these illegal immigrants in America. It not only hurts the Americans that want those lower-paying jobs, but it also drives down wages for everybody. That‘s what kind of Pat was alluding to.
OWENS: Joe, that‘s a
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: How do you respond to that?
OWENS: Well, I have heard Pat and I have heard you.
How I respond to that—and I also would like to respond to some of what I regard as the many of the inaccuracies of what Pat Buchanan is once again talking about. I think Pat has been wrong on most major public policy issues for the last 20 years. And I think he‘s wrong on this one again.
In terms of your friend, I think that, by legalizing, by in fact bringing rationality to the present system, which is all underground, I think we actually see wage rates rise, because today, these people have no rights. They have no ability to go and complain if, in fact, they are being oppressed.
Under a legal system, we would see wage rates rise, because we would have some rationality. We would match willing jobs with willing workers. Today‘s system is exactly what you‘re describing. President Bush, who is enforcing the law today, contrary to what Pat Buchanan said—we‘ve increased Border Patrol by 50 percent. We‘re, in significant ways, increasing our protection at the borders, contrary to what Pat Buchanan said.
This president is enforcing the law and he‘s proposing a better system than the system today, which doesn‘t work.
BUCHANAN: Let me respond to the governor right there, if I may.
The leader of—one of the leaders—the 9,000 Border Patrol men, they are enraged. I have talked to these guys. Some of them had their heads busted in by rocks. They have risked their lives trying to protect our borders. What the president is now saying is, good, you caught 1.5 million last year; 500,000 got in. All of them are staying in here. They get amnesty.
(CROSSTALK)
OWENS: Pat, I will guarantee you, there are many Border Patrol men who know today‘s system does not work. It‘s not working.
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: All right, well, damn it, why doesn‘t the president try to enforce it?
OWENS: Don‘t be losing your temper. Let‘s discuss this as gentlemen.
SCARBOROUGH: Governor, let‘s talk about the border patrols, because the men and women...
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: Hold on a second. I want to read this quote for you and have you respond to it.
The men and women who are charged with protecting the border don‘t seem to be happy with the proposal and they call it a slap in the face.
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: I‘m going to read the quote for you, Governor. If you‘ll let me read the quote, if we can all be polite, as you were just telling Pat Buchanan, I can read the quote.
They say: “Before we do anything else, we need to make sure the border is secure, that illegal aliens in the country are being apprehended and that employer sanctions are being enforced.” And that came from John Frecker at the National Border Patrol Council from the “Washington Times” article, the same “Washington Times” article that said some Border Patrol officers believe this policy is a slap in the face.
Go ahead and respond to the Border Patrol issue.
OWENS: Well, I don‘t know what the National Border Patrol Council is, but I do know that many Border Patrol men understand that today‘s system isn‘t working, that because of the increased security we have placed at the border, for all the right reasons, once some of these undocumented workers get into our country, they can‘t actually go back, because they can‘t afford to move.
It‘s called circular immigration. When the crops are growing, they would come here and help us with the crops, then they would go back to Mexico. “The Wall Street Journal,” Joe, has reported that today‘s system is forcing many of these good people to stay here when, in fact, they want to go back. So you found a Border Patrol man who doesn‘t like President Bush‘s plan. I would guarantee that there are many, many people on our border who understand the present system isn‘t working. We need to rationalize it. We need to legalize it.
We need to know who is coming into our country for a change.
SCARBOROUGH: Thank you, Governor Owens.
OWENS: Thank you, Joe.
SCARBOROUGH: And, certainly, we appreciate you coming on the show.
This is one of the few instances, I believe, where you and I are on opposite sides.
OWENS: Absolutely.
SCARBOROUGH: I appreciate you coming in, despite the fact you knew that Pat and I were going to be double-teaming you.
OWENS: Good to be with you.
SCARBOROUGH: Next time you come back, I hope we are on the same side again. So...
OWENS: I figured it was an even fight.
SCARBOROUGH: Even fight.
OWENS: Thanks a lot.
SCARBOROUGH: Thanks a lot.
Pat Buchanan, as always, I appreciate you being here, too.
Now, if you are enraged over this plan to allow more illegal immigrants in our country, like a lot of people are doing, send your e-mails. And you can do it at {{{Joe@MSNBC.com}}} If have any concerns about the president‘s proposed immigration policy, let me know.
And, also, if you have a story to tell about illegal immigration on both sides, if your job was taken away by an illegal immigrant or if you think this will help America‘s economy, we invite you to let us know about it. And we‘ll have you on the show to talk about it. And I am going to make sure that, on this very important issue, your voice is heard.
(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...
And Joe will, he is not only our champion but a fellow Freeper! And a longtime hero of mine and a true Patriot!!! Write Joe people!!!
And how could Tom Tancredo come from such a great state and the Denver Gov be such a complete idiot?!
It's so easy to read a greedy globalist these days.
National Sovereignty means absolutely NOTHING to these pigs, just as long as they're confident they and theirs are protected on the inside of the whole deal.
I call them Predatory Capitalists ... The I've Got Mine Club(so screw the rest of you little have-nots)
I started to learn the beauty of capitalism while selling lemonade as a kid, and went on to benefit greatly from Capitalism and Entreprenurialism in my working life.
However I never gouged or took advantage of people in the process. I only found happiness in win-win.
-laughing-
The only ones who win are the big business guys and gals. The American worker loses due to lower wages and lack of work. The American taxpayer loses due to increased costs for schools, roads, etc. The illegal workers lose since they are paid sub-standard wages, receive no benefits, and have zero rights.
The Camp of the Saints is a great book about what might happen if say 500 million Chinese show up on the Western coast of the United States demanding entry. If Mexico gets this deal, how long before other countries demand equal access?
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