Excavations Reveal 7,000 Year-Old Harappan Sites

Daily Times ^ | 1-20-2004

[texas booster]

baked clay ceramics and T/C cakes. Pottery and T/C cakes

Just to make sure ... T/C stands for terracotta, I presume? I am going to pretend I have a clue about this stuff at the office party.

I am always interested when Muslim scholars find ancient cultures with their idol worship and old religions. Makes for some tense moments between handing out fatwas and posing on CNN as the Religion of Peace.

[msdrby]

ping

[Cronos]

I remember reading that the Harappan civilisation had extensive trade with the Sumerians -- mayhaps the Sumerians were Dravidians -- they certainly weren't Semitic. This would tie in with the extensive history of the belt from present-day Syria to the Gangetic valley. The theory of Aryan invasion is also being discounted -- there's no proof of any massacres as would be expected in an invasion site.

It would be within the realms of possibility that both Sumeria and Mohenjodaro-Harappa were formed at the same time -- c 6000 B.C. or earlier. The Harappan would have failed due to drought and the peoples moved further east and south. TheSumerian, weakened by this disappearance of a trading partner slowly succumbed to the Semitic/Amorite tribes that had been living in the valleys, outside the cities. in the Harappan context, the Aryans would have been the nomads trading with the city dwellers, so pushign Aryan origin in Eastern Iran (land of the Arya) and the Western Indian sub-continent.

[Cronos]

Nope, would be his ancestor, maybe.

[Cronos]

The progress of Buddhism from India to China seems pretty well documented as having taken place during Emperor Ashoka's reign (ruler of most of the Indian continent around 350 B.C.) who converted to Buddhism and went on a proselyting spree -- his empire converted to the Emperor's religion and the Emperor sent missionaries to China and the Orient and to the west -- Gandhara and converted the Greeks there to Buddhism. Another strange fact I just read was that the rulers of parts of Afghanistant until the Arab era had quite a bit of Greek blood in them, so the present-day Afghanis may be a fraction GReek.

[Cronos]

Great! More mud huts
Actually the Harappan culture used bricks to build their cities.

[AmericanVictory]

and freckled too. It's the empty bottles of Guiness that have them really perplexed.

[blam]

"Another strange fact I just read was that the rulers of parts of Afghanistant until the Arab era had quite a bit of Greek blood in them, so the present-day Afghanis may be a fraction GReek."

I tend to agree with this too.

I suspect Buddahism travelled out of northern Indian-Pakistan down the proto-Silk Road into China in about 100-200BC by the Tocharians into the Han occupied regions.

[blam]

This picture is contained in Victor Mair's book, The Tarim Mummies

Above: This 900 AD painting from the caves at the Buddhist monastery at Bezeklik, Turfnan, Central Asia, depicts Tocharian worthies donating trays of moneybags to a Buddhist saint. Note the light hair and blue eyes of the Tocharian on the right, the last remnants of the Indo-European invaders of China.

[Cronos]

You are correct.

According to the site http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/buddhistworld/east-asia.htm During the third century B.C., Emperor Ashoka sent missionaries to the northwest of India that is, present-day Pakistan and Afghanistan. The mission achieved great success, as the region soon became a centre of Buddhist learning with many distinguished monks and scholars. When the merchants of Central Asia came into this region for trade, they learnt about Buddhism and accepted it as their religion. With the support of these merchants, many cave monasteries were established along the trade routes across Central Asia. By the second century B.C., some Central Asian cities like Khotan, had already become important centres for Buddhism. The Chinese people had their first contact with Buddhism through the Central Asians who were already Buddhists.

[Cronos]

What's your opinion on the Yueh-tchih or the Shakas? There seems to be conflicting opinions on whether they were Indo-European or Mongoloid.

[swarthyguy]

Been my outlandish theory about Sumer and the Indus cities. That there were more contacts and interaction than has been acknowledged or discovered.

Some oddities - the word Sumer in Sindhi is the word for Monday, FWIW.

The ancient deity of the Indus, Jhoolelal, a seagod on a dolphin, is eerily similar to the water ocean god of the Sumerians.

[swarthyguy]

Here's that quote from Kipling on the front of Time's Eye, the new book by Arthur C. Clarke and Stephen Baxter.

Cities and Thrones and Powers,

Stand in Time's eye,

Almost as long as flowers,

Which daily die:

But, as new buds put forth

To glad new men,

Out of the spent and unconsidered Earth

The Cities rise again.

--From - Puck of Pook's Hill 1906

[Cronos]

Been my outlandish theory about Sumer and the Indus cities. That there were more contacts and interaction than has been acknowledged or discovered. Some oddities - the word Sumer in Sindhi is the word for Monday, FWIW.

Oh, it's not so outlandish. What is outlandish is the Aryan invasion theory which I don't really buy. there's no sign of it, the only thing was that German dude's imagination. The Aryans must have originated in Iran-India-Transoxiana and slowly moved into the Harappan areas, maybe even been the traders between the cities -- a symbiotic relationship.

[swarthyguy]

Just found at the library...

1421 - Gavin Menzies - How the Chinese discovered America.

[swarthyguy]

Starting about a decade ago, I began to see a contrarian view of the Aryan invasion of India.

There is a novel that actually reverses the hypothesis and has the Aryan culture flowing out from India to points west.

Some of the names of places and people in the Baltic lands and Finland can almost be Sanskrit.

[swarthyguy]

Greek blood

The Greeks intermingled and there are stories about Afghani tribes made up of Alexander's army who settled in Afghanistan.

There is a tribe called the Nuranis, IIRC, far north Afghanistan, only converted to Islam early in the 20th Century who seem to have quite a lot of Greek influence in their culture.

They were the inspiration for Kipling's the Man who would be King and their veneration of Sikander and Greek symbols.

[keri]

Some of the names of places and people in the Baltic lands and Finland can almost be Sanskrit.

That's what I've been wondering for some time now.

Any input here, Allan?

[swarthyguy]

Nice change from geopolitics and jihad here.

[blam]

"What's your opinion on the Yueh-tchih or the Shakas? There seems to be conflicting opinions on whether they were Indo-European or Mongoloid.

I think you are referring to the Saka people.

The human skeletal records indicate that the original people in the whole region were the Indo-European 'Celt' like people. Elizabeth Barber in her book, The Mummies Of Urumchi, was startled at the 1,800-2,000BC fabrics she found on theses mummies. The fabric (material, mfg techniques and styles) were exactly like those of the Celts of Halstadt, Austria, 4,000 miles and 1,000 years apart.

Mair (working with the skeletal record and linguistics) indicates that the region was populated by a number of 'Caucasian' tribes with names of ,Saka, Yuezhi, Xiongnu and others. I believe the Xiongnu became/were the later Schytians. Mair (linguistics) said that many waves of Iranian speakers flooded into the area early and often.

The first Mongol (Asian) mummies begin to turn up in the Tarim Basin around 100-200BC and then from then on, mixed race mummies become more frequent. The Han Dynasty 'magic' men were noted for their red hair and there are many poems lamenting the green eyes of the Han Emperors. There are isolated skeletal examples of these 'Celt like' people all the way into 1,300AD in the region and then they disappear into mixed race skeletons...probably becoming the present day Ughyars.
One skeleton named 'The Beauty Of Loulan' (reconstructed face) has been adopted by the Ughyars as 'the mother of their country.'