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We're in agreement all the way around. You're right .the nanny state would no have gotten to where it is now without the seduction, then the willingness to be seduced ,of the middle class. The Elite have their own agenda, which you and I together can probably post why they are that way, and the loser class , who refuse to look at, let alone live up to, their own potentials.

I don't yet think we are doomed , but we could be if we ever decide to quit. One of the points I think is lost is tha tthe big middle is too comfortable to think,just react. They like to be entertained and charmed. Clinton did this, Perot did as well. PJB did not, John Kerry's charm offensive won't last, I don't think. John Edwards just might .

In a way, what we've touched on is an addiction to elements in the Nanny State. Our entertainment industry,that includs the network news and newsmagazines,sings a nice little song to us. They tell us with serious faces what we are supposed to hear,offering to think for us and we are too mesmerized by the flickering imagery that our logic button never goes off.

This sound reasonable to you?

"They like to be entertained and charmed."

Of great frustration to me is the propensity of even the politically astute to lapse into lazy, band aid politics, refusing to look at the disease while attacking the symptoms. This behavior, I fear, is becoming a form of entertainment of some hiding behind their keyboards.

This is a great arena for the exchange of ideas. It also has the potential of providing a forum for those who get their jollies engaging in verbal one-upsmanship and other games. Granted, not one amongst us is perfect.

I appreciate your civil tone.